Fighting spirit: "I’m the ANC’s own problem – they created this problem
What do you make of the ANC-led government saying it wants to explore the possibility of expropriation without compensation, which has been one of the core beliefs held by the EFF?
Well, it is a confirmation that the ANC has run out of ideas and that they go around copying what other parties are saying.
We’ll see to what extent are they committed to that call because in Parliament we had offered them 6% so that we amend the Constitution and then it speaks to expropriation without compensation. And when they refused it in Parliament we then tried them again during the negotiation of coalition governments at municipal level both in Tshwane and in Johannesburg. But one of the things we want the ANC to commit to is expropriation of land without compensation, which they outrightly rejected, so to come now and say they are now committed, I think it’s just semantics more than a commitment and a political will.
We’ll see that [during] the State of the Nation address, we’ll see that [during the] budget speech. Those commitments must be reflected in the official statements, both by the president and the minister of finance.
Do you believe the radical stance by the ANC is a reaction to political pressure from the EFF on the land issue?
I think it’s a reaction to South Africans, because now there is a general consensus by all that the land must be returned into the hands of the rightful owners, including from among progressive white people who are beginning to say we are prepared to surrender huge portions of our land because we have come to appreciate that our people are starving of the land in this country.
Next week President Jacob Zuma will deliver his State of the Nation address. Will the EFF walk out of Parliament again and what will the purpose be?
We never walk out. We stand up and speak and then we get pushed out, we don’t walk out.
There’s a problem in this country and everyone else wants to proceed as if nothing wrong has happened. The Constitutional Court has found Parliament to be in breach of the Constitution, meaning Parliament is illegitimate itself. And then the president [was found] in breach of the Constitution, meaning the president is illegitimate himself. So how can an illegitimate body hold someone accountable on the basis of his breach of the Constitution when they’ve committed the same error themselves? Nothing has happened to Parliament for breaching the Constitution, nothing has happened to the president for breaching the Constitution. What are you saying?
You’re effectively saying the decisions of the Constitutional Court have got no effect and therefore you are rendering the Constitution useless. We are going to Parliament on the 9th of February and let’s see what will happen. It can’t be business as usual. Zuma is going to find us there and as long as we’re still there Zuma will never have peace in that Parliament. He can continue after we’ve challenged him, it’s okay. But the man – when he sits at home alone – he will know that “I’m the only president that has ever been confronted by this difficulty.” The man knows it’s hurting, it’s deeply hurting.
And it must hurt! Because the man has undermined the Constitution of South Africa. Whether Parliament proceeds after our action or not is immaterial. What matters is Zuma is not going to be accorded the respect that is accorded to presidents who respect the Constitution. It is of his own making that he is being treated in the manner that we are treating him because he disrespected the Constitution, and now he is disrespecting the Constitutional Court.
That Parliament, if we were true democrats, if people were respecting the Constitution, that Parliament must be dissolved and all of us go back to campaign afresh. Even if the same people get re-elected, it’s okay, but it will be the 6th Parliament.
What do you make of criticism that you are failing to properly represent your constituency in Parliament by focusing on boycotting the president?
That’s a critique from people who enjoy comfortable air-conditioned offices, who are not on the ground. They said that about us before the local government election, that our constituency is not happy, we are not representing them well, they are not proud. The results came, we are actually the only party that increased its votes. No one is giving that narrative. The DA lost votes by almost 200 000, the ANC lost votes by almost three million, the EFF increased its votes from zero to 1.2-million. Nobody else has received that, only the EFF.
You tweeted recently about Zuma wanting a third term as ANC president. Do you really believe he’ll attempt this?
Zuma wants a third term, that’s why there are 10 candidates or more for president. Because Zuma is not speaking to anyone about a possibility of succeeding him and as a result speak to other fellows about rallying behind his preferred candidate.
He’s the creator of that internal confusion in the ANC with the hope that this confusion will then result in him being asked to remain as a unifying figure.
He doesn’t want any woman president when he says: “We want a woman president.” No, no, no. If there was a possibility of him changing overnight to become a woman so that he can secure a third term he would have done that, that’s how desperately he wants to come back. Not because he’s got any form of agenda for South African people … for his personal agenda, for his family agenda, for his criminal activities.
He thinks that the only effective way of preventing him from being prosecuted is by him remaining in power. It’s the same thing President Mugabe is scared of with all the good work he has done for Zimbabwean people. He’s got this nightmare that if he leaves there’s a possibility of prosecution for human rights violations or for whatever reason. So [he thinks]: “The best thing is that let me die as president so that I don’t have to face that humiliation.” But the man continues to humiliate himself. He can’t hold a pen, that’s how old he is. He can’t walk properly. When he sits down he struggles to even sit down.
What is your reaction to the covert “war room” operation which saw people affiliated to the ANC involved in plans to sabotage the EFF’s campaign ahead of last year’s municipal elections?
The leadership of the EFF is considering taking legal action, but for me it’s a political issue, man, it doesn’t even require any legal action.
Those are desperate moves by a dying donkey. And we have to accept that they will try everything in their power; they now developed posters and all that.
These people, mark my word, they are going to start killing. They have become so desperate that they are going to start killing. They have started killing each other internally; they will come for us. That’s why we have to be extremely careful because desperate politicians do stupid things. And with ANC losing power so fast I can guarantee you that they will kill. Those posters are a confirmation that they will kill.
We should actually be happy that the signs are of a party that is in acceptance that it’s losing but refusing to lose and doing everything, by hook or crook, to stay in power.
There have been calls by some in the EFF to review the party’s decision to give its vote to the Democratic Alliance in Tshwane and Jo’burg. What is the official stance on the matter?
The party’s stance is that the ANC must be out of power and we are doing exactly that. And if it means giving the power to the devil we will do that, as long as we can take away the public purse from these crooks who are using it to benefit their families and their friends, we’ll do exactly that.
So, in as much as we are not happy with the DA, we are not happy with other parties in other municipalities. We’ll continue to find solutions, which will not include putting the ANC back into power through the back door.
In Metsimaholo now, the Metsimaholo Civic Association has an underground relationship with the ANC – and we came to know about it. We are removing them from power. We’re going directly as the EFF to take over that municipality and demonstrate to South Africans that the EFF can run the most effective municipality, which will be pro-poor and pro-black people. [The EFF did not manage to wrest Ward 12 away from the ANC in a by-election on February 1.]
Has the EFF reached an agreement with the DA in Metsimaholo?
There is an in-principle agreement between the EFF and the DA, and the deputy president of the EFF [Floyd Shivhambu] is in negotiations with the DA. The EFF has got eight members of the council and if we win Ward 12, we’ll have nine. And even if you wanted to take over all the mayoral committees, you’ll still need some party to give you two or three people so that there can be the full complement of a mayoral committee. So because we’re running short we’re going to have to ask the DA to send some of their people into the mayoral committee.
But what if DA refuses to give the EFF its support in Metsimaholo?
If it means you are disagreeing with the DA to the point where the ANC may take power, then you might rather compromise and allow the DA to continue. But that will be selfish of the DA to refuse to give people – who have given them three metros – to refuse to give them a smaller municipality so that those people can demonstrate that they are not what their opponents say they are.
We are capable of governing and we are ready, so it would be unfair on the part of the DA – but they would’ve exposed themselves for who they are. Then they will know from that time that although they might be in power, they shouldn’t rely on the EFF when it comes to strategic decisions, because they would have disappointed us.
What are the EFF’s top priorities for municipal budgets in the coming financial year?
We want the poorest of the poor, particularly old people, to be exempted from paying rates and services at the municipal level. There must be money allocated for such people and we should not make them pay. Even if it’s a prepaid system, that prepaid system must be designed in such a way that it will be able to identify people who are poor and then supply them with free units of electricity, free units of water, so that those families don’t suffer under municipalities which are not ANC-controlled.
We want the housing list redone properly and houses allocated for deserving people. Priority should be given to disabled people, must be given to child-headed families, must be given to old-aged people, and then the unemployed. We want people who are in the squatter camps to get houses, and those that are declared to be in an area that is not suitable for settlement must be relocated with immediate effect.
Land must be found for them. They must be properly settled and there must be services where they are relocated to. Jobs must be created, and those jobs must be given particularly to young graduates, and they must not be provided to those young graduates on the bases of political affiliation.
We want a budget that will speak to specific wards, that [we can say]: “In Ward 1 this is what we are going to do this budget year.” So that the people in Ward 1 don’t just theorise about budget; they know what budget practically means for them.
Are there particular provinces that the EFF is targeting to win in the 2019 national elections?
Well, Gauteng is gone, the history of the ANC is such that when it loses it doesn’t stop, it keeps on losing, and doesn’t come back. If they have come back somewhere they need to tell me and you where? They’ve never come back. In the Western Cape, when they lost we thought it was a joke. And it became serious, and it’s now extreme to the point where the DA even wins with a two-thirds majority.
I said to [ANC chairman in Gauteng] Paul [Mashatile] in 2014 when they lost 10%, this is what’s going to happen throughout. So if the trend is such that every election they lose with 10%, we are guaranteed that they will be at 44% or 43% in 2019. They’re gone.
We’re looking at Gauteng, we’re looking at Limpopo, we’re looking at North West. That’s where those provinces will be in the hands of the opposition including the Western Cape.
What is the EFF’s 2017 plan to prepare for the national elections in 2019?
We said this year is the year of the branch, meaning we must have plus-minus 4 000 branches of the EFF. Those branches must not only be in an area where the chairperson comes from. They must be representative of all the voting stations in a ward, so there shouldn’t be a voting station where there are no members of the EFF.
So for you to be launched as a branch you must demonstrate that we actually exist in all the voting stations in a ward, [that] we’ve actually held meetings in all the voting stations of the ward. Only then you will qualify to be launched as a branch.
You must have programmes – cleaning campaigns, know-your-neighbour programmes, know your schools, your hospitals, all the public facilities. Make sure they are in good shape, make sure they provide services to our people.
You’re using tactics you picked up while in the ANC to thwart the party?
Well, I grew up in the ANC; everything I know I was taught by the ANC. I’m their own problem. They created this problem, so they will have to live with it, because we are here to stay. I haven’t only studied how the ANC has done its business. I’ve looked at the PAC [Pan Africanist Congress]. With very good policy, what became its problem? Lots of theorising, lots of talking to themselves and very little to spread the wings of the PAC. The same thing with Azapo [the Azanian People’s Organisation].