/ 10 October 1997

Icarus on cappuccino

Artist Robyn Orlin will be performing at the opening festivities. We find out what shes on

Performance artist Robyn Orlin in the 15- minute interview. By Charl Blignaut

There is only one place that Robyn Orlin will meet for an interview her office, the Brazilian coffee shop in the Killarney Mall, Johannesburg. When I meet her at 2pm she is just finishing off a light breakfast.

Charl Blignaut: You were always the bad girl of South African dance, I mean, the one they couldnt control who simulated sex with slabs of meat kind of thing. Why do you think they chose you to open as prestigious a function as the 1997 Johannesburg Biennale?

Robyn orlin: I havent got a clue. Ask Okwui [Enwezor; curator]. And Im not so sure Im happy that they chose me. The piece my hiccups continue to growl is a technical nightmare.

CB: How are you feeling about the biennales vision?

RO: Great, I just hope it all comes to fruition that we can at least have a taste of what it is to experience a major international art happening … [We order cappuccinos.]

CB: Speaking of which, youve slowly been getting into the global performance art circuit, havent you?

RO: I went to Weimar, Germany, with William Kentridges Ubu. Something that not many critics seem to have realised in their reviews is that I choreographed Ubu, but, as William says, I kept them on their toes … And I took Naked on a Goat to Poland and then Switzerland. For some reason it really freaked Poland out … I replaced a female dancer with Warren Human and the whole way through people thought he was a woman and he did the dance of the seven veils and at the end removed each of his petticoats … and showed the real thing. People were very offended. I also stopped by Dokumenta X in Germany and Ill be going to Nantes in France for the millenium festival soon. [The cappuccinos arrive.]

CB: Im told you cant function creatively without a cappuccino.

RO: Its true. Cappuccinos are my muse. Even decaffeinated.

CB: You need them daily?

RO: Twice. Three times. Sometimes more.

CB: Its therapy for you, cappuccino?

RO: No, but I need therapy …

CB: For?

RO: For learning how to feel like a whole person in this country; for learning to sustain myself as an artist.

CB: It still seems strange youre now part of the mainstream. You were always the epitome of the fringe.

RO: Hmm, being in the mainstream in this country just means youve been around a long time. My work hasnt changed. I think its that now the dance world is beginning to accept the kind of vocabulary that Ive been using for 15 years. I mean, now my work is part of the National School of the Arts dance syllabus.

CB:Youre now also a 1997 Vita fine art thingie finalist.

RO: Thats been exciting for me. Im doing another installation. Im increasingly opposed to labelling my work. Im moving further and further from pure dance. The installation involves point shoes. Well, hairy point shoes. Ive been asking dancers to donate their pubic hairs. This has, with the exception of those in the cause, met with some disapproval.

CB: What I love about your work is its alternative focus on the body. I mean, contemporary dance is so youth- and body- obsessed …

RO: Thats the thing; the narcissism of it all just doesnt interest me anymore. I feel sorry for those dancers who are trapped by wanting to look 25. Im feeling happy about settling into my middle-age- spread phase. There are so many other issues around the body placing physical performance in the broader context of art theory.

CB: So now, why do you think your hiccups are growling?

RO: Well, you may not be aware of this, but a female Icarus has been in hiding in the Electric Workshop for the past 200 years, waiting to free herself and challenge this whole flight thing. I also want to question why Icarus is always seen as a man.

CB:Itll be the first time in absolute ages that youre performing?

RO: Hmm, two years. Its a solo piece with lots of technicians I cant really afford to pay … [Her press release reads: Due to a growing shortage of dancers Orlin will be accompanied by 30 100W lightbulbs.]

CB: Tell me more.

RO: Im using the Icarus myth [Icarus: the boy whose father, Ddalus, crafted wax wings for him to escape from prison with. This he did, but the idea of flight intoxicated him so that he flew too close to the sun and melted his wings]. Im working with it but actually completely ignoring it …

CB: Youre funny. Do you mind if I smoke?

RO: Not at all.

CB: My God, youre the only dancer Ive ever interviewed who didnt mind if I smoked. Tell me more about Icarus and your hiccups. [More cappuccinos arrive, as if by divine will.]

RO: I suppose the flight thing is all about the extremes of being an artist. The balance between moderation and extremity. Im working with the lawyer and pianist/composer Phillip Miller. Therell be a grand piano. Ill be wearing five tutus and five pairs of ballet shoes …

CB: Robyn Orlin: the woman who single- handedly reinvented the tutu on cappuccino …

RO: … then Ill be hoisted up on a winch.

CB: Whats a winch? Something like a wench?

RO: Its like a mini-pulley. Im not sure how itll all work yet. Weve been rehearsing at my home without the winch, so Ive had to pretty much use my imagination. Im not sure what the final effect will be, but in my mind I keep seeing Breughels painting of Icarus. Do you know it?

CB: No.

RO: Its a vast landscape and over the-e- ere in the corner Icarus is falling to earth and nobody gives a shit. I think it all actually has something to do with the way an artist is treated in society.

CB:Particularly this society?

RO: I have to agree.

CB: With what?

RO: Try and soar and theyll burn your wings. Ive been rehearsing this thing all week I think its been about the conflict of my obsession with light. And with performance [read flight]. Plus Phillip Millers been there on the side, feeding me with even more Icarus angst.

CB: Are you afraid of flying?

RO: Im petrified of flying.

CB: In every sense or just in the physical sense?

RO: No, no, just physically on an aeroplane.

CB: Ah, thats a huge relief. Here I am thinking oh my God, thisll take at least another four cappuccinos. So then tell me, whats the other side of the flight story the spiritual one?

RO: Its about still working, still having the drive.

CB: Youve never wanted to give up?

RO: All the time, theres the conflict between flying and being grounded. Theres the constant pressure of a lack of resources, of having no agent, of no steady financial backing.

CB: Well, look at it this way, at least your hiccups continue to growl …

RO: Hmm [She looks at me funny and downs the last of a cappuccino].