The South African National Civics Organisation (Sanco), a long-standing but lately dormant ally of the African National Congress, has made a political intervention that seeks a constitutional amendment to allow President Thabo Mbeki to serve a third term as the country’s president.
Where did the proposal to extend Mbeki’s third term suddenly come from?
At our national executive committee meeting we did a 10-year review that identified certain constitutional impediments. We believe the 10-year term for the president and premiers is too restrictive. It gives credence to arguments that we are trying to be the best model of a developed Western country when our democracy is young and vulnerable. When we have leaders of the capacity and skills of Thabo Mbeki to take us forward, do we really need a Constitution that does not take that into account?
So you are saying Mbeki is indispensable?
On the contrary, we believe in the collective leadership of the ANC. Our principle, three five-year terms or two seven-year terms, would continue after Mbeki.
Isn’t the democratic principle that people must have a regular chance to replace their leaders?
I’m against the idea that the extinctin of politicians should be promoted. Many are revolutionaries who make huge sacrifices to serve the public.
Mbeki says he doesn’t want a third term. Aren’t you just grandstanding?
We’re talking not to the president, but to the country to debate this matter. It’s not Mbeki who would decide on this matter, but the ANC. We’re convinced that, as more arguments emerge, he will be willing to listen.
Why should anyone listen to Sanco?
We’re convinced that our argument is rational enough to convince South Africans. We are strong intellectually and a mass organisation.
Are you? Do you really have four million members?
Yes, we do. They pay R15 per annum. Proof of that is we are championing the local government campaign on behalf of the ANC. We don’t make loose boasts.
Where was Sanco during violent protests against ANC councils last year?
Our members were there, but when they were interviewed they were presented as community leaders, rather than Sanco. We are not media crazy.
Your proposal has been roundly criticised by the Communist Party, the Congress of South African Trade Unions and the Youth League …
They’ve reduced the argument to Mbeki and are, therefore, missing our key arguments. There’ll come a time when people recognise that 10 years is not a long time in office; that you need much more than that. Some ministers, such as Trevor Manuel and Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, have been in office for 15 years, but the issue has not been raised.
There’s a perception that Sanco’s leaders, including yourself, are sycophants trying to curry favour with the president.
Quite the contrary — the president is against our position. We wouldn’t have raised it if we wanted a romantic relationship with him. Right now he’s been placed in the compromised position of having to respond on this issue when he’s supposed to be concentrating on the State of the Nation address. The same statements were made when we criticised Cosatu for its anti-privatisation strike. But we did that because the campaign had deteriorated into a political campaign, which targeted government as a whole.
The ANC plucked you from nowhere and made you Sedibeng mayor last year. Why?
I was approached in April last year, when I was CEO of Wireless Business Solutions, to come and assist in the Vaal, where I come from. Local government was not new for me. I was chair of the Lekoa-Vaal Metropolitan Council from 1993 to 1996 and played a leading role in the transition of local government.
Your third term proposal is seen as a mark of gratitude to certain ANC people for your elevation to mayor …
That view is incorrect, because I took a 55% salary cut when I took the mayor’s post. It was a sacrifice. I now have a R19 000 take-home salary compared to the R55 000 I used to take home as CEO. The lowest bonus I got annually was R480 000, but now I have no bonus. My wife complained, but I felt morally bound to help local government.
You have private sources of income, though, don’t you?
Those businesses are in property, they’re long-term investments where you can only see value in eight to 10 years. I did experience financial setbacks, but I have no long-term financial insecurity.
Aren’t politicians with business interests on the side open to conflicts of interest?
That conflict must be avoided. A politician must not be involved in business in an area where he operates politically. I’m not involved in business in Sedibeng.