Rapule Tabane speaks to Gauteng Premier Mbhazima Shilowa about governance, ANC policy and the role of legislatures.
Do we really need the provinces?
We have a constitutional dispensation that recognises the need for government at provincial, local and national level. Most people who ask this question do so on the basis of questioning the capacity of one province or another to deliver. We have three metros in Gauteng and the province coordinates their work.
But what do provinces do that local government cannot?
That is an incorrect question altogether. Without a well-functioning government in our province the programmes we see happening, such as the Blue IQ [Gauteng’s economic growth and infrastructural development strategy], would not be happening. The province identifies key issues and challenges and national [government] looks at national issues alone. They may or may not identify the West Rand, for example, as a priority area where the economy is stagnant. But we work in partnership with the local authority. Ask Jo’burg city, without provincial government would you be able to do most of the Blue IQ projects? I would say no, they would not be able to do it alone. But of course there are things that could be done without an intermediary.
How much legislation does Gauteng pass?
We have been able to pass laws in line with the Constitution that take us in a particular direction. Through legislation we have been able to improve how we deal with finance. By the end of the 2002 financial year we had about seven of our departments reporting unqualified statements. We have been able to pass important legislation such as the health district Bill, Blue IQ Bill, and the development and planning Bill.
Is the legislature performing sufficient oversight work? Last year, for example, the public accounts committee recommended that the administration of the Department of Sport and Recreation be investigated but nothing has happened yet.
There are enough committees to deal with oversight. My approach to oversight work is not just the legislature asking whether the government has done this or that. It is about whether they ask right from the beginning, what plans do you have for next year? I would not think that there is any need for the legislature to check why heads of departments [HODs] are leaving the sports department when they know that the last HOD had been dismissed as a result of a disciplinary process and the one before that left because she had an opportunity in another department.
The Democratic Alliance regards oversight as a question and answer session in the legislature. It is the people out there who must have a say about what we do and whether we visit their areas and respond to them and tell them our programmes. I regard that as an important part of oversight rather than how many pair of shoes I have.
How do you monitor the issues that are raised in your monthly community outreach programme and ensure that commitments are followed up?
People from my office take notes about all the commitments made, even by MECs. This enables me to check with MECs whether the issues have been attended to.
We went to Boitumelo in Midvaal and people said: “We do not have water, we drink from wells.” Within four days we had provided water tanks. We have people in my office whose focus is solely on policy implementation and follow-up with departments.
The housing department had huge unspent funds. Is that a concern to you?
It is a concern but I know why they underspent. They couldn’t spend on Cosmo City near Fourways when it had been delayed over a number of objections. The way housing programmes work and because of the checks and balances we have introduced because of issues of corruption, municipalities take time to certify.
We try to verify every project so that you do not have property developers claiming to have built houses when they have not. In some respects municipalities provide services like water, sanitation and electricity and take too long to claim back from province and we sit with the resources.
Even though there is an explanation, with proper planning and proper integration, you could sequence your financing so you do not have underspending.
How do you deal with the tension between national and provincial governments? Last year Gauteng was in conflict with the national health department over the rolling out of nevirapine for the programme to prevent the transmission of HIV from mother to child.
I regard it as healthy tension because what we did was on the basis of the national framework. When we met with the minister we ironed out problems and the programme we announced went ahead. All our hospitals now provide nevirapine. When such issues arise, it requires political maturity, work in the African National Congress and interaction with Cabinet ministers.
The Gauteng Online project to provide Internet access to every learner in this province by 2005 seems to be proceeding very slowly. What is happening?
The tender was awarded but the department and the Gauteng shared services centre decided that the procedure had to be looked at again. Therefore the process took longer. Now they have awarded the tender and last week I asked Education MEC Ignatius Jacobs whether they will meet the target of connecting 1 100 schools by next year and indications are that they will.
There was also a problem with a tender for providing transport to rural school children? Is tendering proving to be a problem in this province?
We’ve got to get it right. If you think a tender is likely to open you to litigation, it is better to ensure you get it right. The schools’ tender delay occurred simply because we needed to do more work around integration and planning.
There are people who win a tender for scholar transport but have no buses, or you find 40 children crammed into a minibus. But the problem really lies with how we pay small contractors.
How do you pay them?
We have paid them in a way that made it difficult for them to tender, such as waiting for six months before paying them. But the shared services centre now wants to ensure they are paid within 30 days.
Is there a higher office for premiers?
You can’t move from the premise that having been given an opportunity to serve as a premier, the movement owes you to serve another term or to become minister or ambassador. If the movement does not find something for me, I would not say, “Please find something”.
Are you still the same Shilowa you were six years ago or are you a trade unionist turned defender of big capital?
I can’t sit in judgement of myself but I can tell you that the ANC in government, contrary to what people say, is pro-working class and pro-poor. Firstly urban renewal programmes do not benefit the rich, they benefit the poor. All our housing programmes benefit the poor. I can defend this ANC government in Gauteng for dealing with issues of the poor.