US President Donald Trump. (File photo by Seth Wenig-Pool/Getty Images)
African American televangelist Mark Burns, in an interview with the Mail & Guardian, challenged the “white genocide” narrative about South Africa and decried the country’s foreign policy ambivalence towards the dollar.
He is a minister of Harvest Worship Center in South Carolina and a Republican who ran for state governor. He served as a board member of Pastors for Trump. An early supporter of Donald Trump in 2016, Time magazine named Burns one of the US president’s top advisers.
Burns’ visit to South Africa follows months of strained relations between South Africa and the United States, which culminated in 49 Afrikaners being granted refugee status in the US and the awkward bilateral trade reset meeting at the White House in May where President Cyril Ramaphosa was confronted with genocide claims by Trump.
M&G: What has been your experience of South Africa thus far?
Burns: “I’ve been to Africa many times, the continent, first time ever in South Africa. I feel like I’m in America. I’m going to be honest with you. There’s so many similarities. From architecture to your transportation, your roads, your highways. Literally, I’m thinking I’m back at home in South Carolina, with the exception that we drive on different sides of the roads.”
M&G: In terms of the religious situation in South Africa and churches, and also the political scene, how are you finding it?
Mark Burns: “Obviously, the elephant in the room is the conversation with your president [Cyril Ramaphosa] and my president [Donald Trump] in the Oval Office; how there’s been a conversation or a belief system that there is a white genocide that is happening in South Africa and that white farmers are being targeted and having their land stolen. Just based on the conversations that I’ve been having with Afrikaners and black, coloured, Asian South Africans, I’m shocked to discover that most, not all of them, are shocked to believe that was something that was even spoken about in their country.”
M&G: Do you think the personal experience of President Trump possibly being here in South Africa might change his opinion on white genocide?
Mark Burns: “Well, absolutely. I mean, again, President Trump is a man of peace. His goal is to bring peace and bring prosperity to all nations. That’s why he is doing things that traditional presidents didn’t do, like talk with Iran, like have conversations with Syria … Maybe [white genocide] is absolutely true because [media] are presenting evidence that we don’t know the truth of. We just know what’s been shown to us and that these white farmers who are here in the United States of America in fear of their life are being hunted down by black people. And so if that’s true, as a black man, I stand on what’s right and not what’s popular.”
M&G: What were some of the key takeaways from your conversations with
members of the Afrikaner community?
Mark Burns: “There’s a crime problem. Out of the 5,200 and so murders that took place in the last quarter of 2024, 12 of them were farmers. Out of those 12, only three of them were white. And so this is the realistic numbers that are coming from white Afrikaners who are here in South Africa and represent 70% of the farms. I just had a wonderful meeting with them, and I’m getting all this new information first hand from leaders who, again, are white. If I was in a room full of black folks, I would probably say, you know what? You’re probably painting a different narrative to make yourself look innocent. […] Do they want more protection from legal law enforcement officers? Absolutely. Do they believe that there’s a crime problem? Absolutely. Do they believe that they themselves are endangered because they’re a white farmer? No, they do not.”
M&G: With South Africa hosting the G20 this year and handing over to the US in November, how can these two presidents, with Ramaphosa preferring quiet diplomacy and Trump’s confrontational style, find each other among the issues they differ on — from Israel and Palestine, Ukraine and Russia, and the tariffs?
Mark Burns: “Well, I can tell you, just to clarify, you know, the Palestinian-Israeli War and the Ukrainian-Russian War are not United States wars, let’s be clear. I understand that the president and the United States carry significant weight, but these are not President Trump’s wars. President Trump has inherited these conflicts. You mentioned his brash personality. That’s why America voted for him so overwhelmingly, because we’re tired of being taken advantage of by the rest of the world. It’s the United States versus the rest of the world. And I think your president could do what he did earlier [at the White House], continue to ask the president to come and play golf, come to the G20, come to South Africa, see for yourself. But again, a challenge, and I could just say this, a challenge is Brics. Brics is a big challenge.”
M&G: Please expand on the Brics issue?
Mark Burns: “I understand that some are under the opinion that Brics carries little teeth or little weight, but to understand Brics symbolises Brazil, Russia, India, China and the s symbolises South Africa. And for these organisations, these governments to come together, with the ideal, whether it’s strong or weak, with the ideal to create a separate currency to directly attack, as what President Trump says, the almighty US dollar, that’s no good. And that’s no good for negotiations. It’s not good for trade. And ultimately, I could tell you the heartbeat of President Trump is to bring wealth to everybody, for all nations to succeed, and that includes South Africa.”
M&G: Do you see President Trump attending the G20 summit in November?
Mark Burns: “I can’t speak for him. He’ll speak for himself. But if it was up to me, I would advise the president to come to the G20 … And the president is a smart and wise individual that when receiving the right information, he begins to question the validity of information that was given to him the first time.”
*The story has been updated to correct Burns’ first name to Mark from Mike.