Author and women’s rights activist Mmatshilo Motsei launched her new book, The Kanga and the Kangaroo Court: Reflections on the Jacob Zuma Trial, this week. She spoke to the Mail & Guardian‘s Fikile-Ntsikelelo Moya
You say that you are not debating the correctness of the Jacob Zuma rape trial judgement, but using the term ‘kangaroo court’ suggests you are …
In the book I reflect on what happened inside and outside the trial, on the reaction of Zuma’s supporters and what we know from the Eighties as a ‘kangaroo courtâ€. It is about taking an eagle’s eye view of the case and the persons involved. The focus is more on Khwezi [Zuma’s accuser] than on JZ. The title itself serves as a mirror that we can look at ourselves in.
That too, suggests that you reject the judgement.
It does not go too deep into the trial; it looks at JZ’s behaviour in relation to gender issues. The trial is only a backdrop. In that sense yes, I am making a value judgement.
The rape trial is an old issue. Why are you still pursuing it?
Sexual wounds never heal. That is why you have all these women coming out after the trial talking about what happened to them when they were in exile. Why would they come out now if it was an old issue? We are carrying so much negative energy. Unless we find a way of healing, it is always going to be triggered in some way.
JZ apologised, why is it still an issue?
All he said was that he was sorry that he did not use a condom. He did not apologise to his wives. Again, when one looks at indigenous law the focus is not so much on who is guilty and who is innocent, it is on how the action impacts on the social system.
There is an African saying: ‘Lebitla la mosadi ke bogadi (the marital home is a married woman’s grave).†Zuma’s wives could not speak out because that would have been seen as problematic in their culture. So his apology was not enough.
The feminist movement’s position was that he was guilty, while his supporters say he was framed. Shouldn’t we accept that one of the two versions was a lie and that it was up to the court to decide which?
Let’s assume that he was framed: he was then stupid enough to fall into a trap. As a former head of intelligence, he should have foreseen that. When you are in his position [contesting for leadership of the ANC] your radar must be up at all times.
But he says the woman initiated the sex. As someone who says he is a traditionalist, he should have been aware of the notion that family extends beyond blood lineage. The judge was incapable of understanding that notion and looked at the bond through Western eyes. Zuma should have been more aware and called for restraint.
Doesn’t the feminist movement in South Africa wrongly place gender ahead of race as the primary social divide? Black boys are wrongly seen as better off than their girl counterparts.
As a mother of two boys I agree with that. It is black boys who are in prisons; it could be my boys there. How do I make sure that it isn’t? That is why I say my liberation as a woman is intertwined with yours as a black man. It is about what makes a man a man.
What qualifies you to comment on what makes a man? Isn’t feminism about women defining for themselves who women are?
As a woman, I don’t live in isolation; I live in partnership with men, whether as fathers, brothers, colleagues or partners. The change that I am calling for will therefore impact on men. It is about seeing how we as men and women can be the best we can be.
Isn’t the feminist movement in South Africa negatively affected by the perception that it is led by white people?
It is a valid concern. The feminist movement was led by white women who reflected the needs and the aspirations of white women. The relationship needs to be revisited. But it is wrong to say that feminism is a Western concept.
I recently inherited a piece of land. My grandfather was part of a consortium of 74 people who bought the land and in that consortium there were six women. There is so much we do not know and that we need to learn about ourselves.