Education minister Naledi Pandor talks to Ferial Haffajee about the challenges facing the department … and the pledge
A recurring theme of your presentations is the dysfunction in the system of governance. You’ve said: ‘My hands are tied by provinces. I can have all the wonderful ideas I have but [my hands are tied].†Could you give us some examples?
It’s often about simple things like textbooks. We’ve seen the failings of nutrition in the Eastern Cape where it was not the fault of poor administration but the work of crooks. Corruption must be attacked.
There are numerous cases of no-fee schools that did not receive their allocations. Some things require checking and monitoring and I include myself in some of the failings. Now, every week I want a report on no-fee schools and I don’t take things at face value. Every week I want a report on schools that have received allocations.
It’s not the same in all provinces; some do fantastic things. Often the administration is not up to the ability of executing complex tasks but ones that are absolutely necessary.
Another example is the Dinaledi schools [schools with star potential in the teaching of maths and science]. We agreed with the provinces that we would expand the number of schools [currently 500].
We set criteria that include minimum numbers of pupils enrolled for maths and science, libraries, qualified teachers and a record of success so that we can build on that. We started getting information back and the criteria were simply not met in many cases, including things as elementary as the teaching qualifications. So you sit there tearing your hair out. Now we, as the national department, have decided to employ and deploy.
What are the problems? Is the system too sophisticated?
It’s very sophisticated and we may not be training people sufficiently. There are numbers of vacancies that need to be filled. I’m a great believer in technology, which is an excellent filler if there is a gap.
Can you imagine what would happen if Old Mutual didn’t pay out premiums on time? Why can’t we [the education departments] get salaries right?
How should the governing system be fixed?
In Chile and Brazil they have a federal system that goes much further than we do and yet they manage to meet national priorities. We’ve defined concurrent powers [the apportionment of powers by the Constitution] for policymaking purposes, but made financial accountability exclusive [to the provinces].
The national government must have the ability to direct resources to core activities without taking away [provincial] resources.
You are in an interesting position in a concurrent system; the focus and fascination is on the national minister. I’ve now taken the stance that we will intervene.
You called for less focus on the ministry and more on what is happening out there. You asked: ‘Why is it that our teachers can’t teach these days?†What kind of attention is needed and why can’t our teachers teach?
The ministers have a strong role but it would be good to be on the ground much more — to resuscitate mass mobilisation and people’s education.
The only way I can know is to have proper inspection and evaluation; I want to leave this system in place before I leave.
You have introduced a schools pledge. What is the purpose?
One of the things we [Cabinet] discussed is what have we done to promote social cohesion and national unity where ideals are not expressed only by those who participated in the struggle.
The pledge seeks to invite young people to become part of the enterprise of sharing constitutional values. We hope that young people, while not imprisoned by the struggle for freedom, do come to have an appreciation of the struggle that was centred on certain principles of humanity. This [freedom] has been achieved and it is our responsibility to ensure it is carried on and sustained by future generations.
How will you deal with the conservative backlash? [The Freedom Front has accused the ruling ANC of force-feeding its ideology to young people.]
We have to enter with resolve and insist it should be part and parcel of our nation.
Form must match substance with such a pledge. Surely young people should see elected leaders practise the pledge? Yet we have a situation where the president of the ruling party, Jacob Zuma, and the police National Commissioner, Jackie Selebi, are facing fraud and corruption charges. If form does not meet substance do you not risk making the pledge a tool of festering cynicism?
I believe individuals bear responsibility for their conduct. What we want to internalise is the notion that I am responsible for what I do.
I’m hoping that we begin to build due attention to the rights of others and the global community. It’s a whole new frame of thinking.
A big programme this year will be the ‘laptop per teacher†programme. How will this be funded?
What we hope to do is put some funding towards it. We hope that teachers who can contribute, do. And we will develop a partnership with the private sector. It’s an idea that will boost morale of teachers and alter their relationship with tech-competent learners.
I don’t believe that individual messiahs deliver effective mass campaigns but was the loss of Professor John Aitchison to the literacy campaign not an error?
I think he made a significant contribution but no individual is singularly significant. The mark of good leadership is to be able to ensure sustainability after you have left.
Are you convinced the companies and organisations that received the contracts will be able to execute this vital programme?
You succeed to the degree to which you are able to build partnerships.
We are working with organisations like Project Literacy, which have a track record. Some are worrying about time-frames. We also approached Cubans and Venezuelans and followed [exhaustive] processes. I’ve tried to be as inclusive as possible — there are also provisions for Braille and sign language. In the next week I will be taking a recommendation for CEO to Cabinet.
It seems under-ambitious, given the country’s surplus billions, not to make schooling free. The cost of administering the no-fee school system is expensive. Wouldn’t it be better to have a system of free schooling?
I think it must come eventually.
The under-resourcing and back-logs [of apartheid] need to be funded, but eventually we need to move to a system of free basic education.