Suspended prosecutions boss Vusi Pikoli and police National Commissioner Jackie Selebi wept together at a meeting during which Pikoli questioned Selebi about criminal allegations against him, Pikoli said on Wednesday.
Testifying at the Ginwala commission hearings in Johannesburg on his fitness to hold office, Pikoli said: ”My meeting of the 11th [of November 2006] was not an easy meeting for discussions with the national commissioner.
”Because, there I was, sitting with the national commissioner. I have known him from my days in exile, I worked closely with him when I was director general of justice, and now I had to ask him difficult questions based on allegations against him.
”I asked him about money he is supposed to have received and channelled through several accounts,” Pikoli said.
”He denied [it] and he was convincing. At the time I believed him. I cried in that meeting. He cried in that meeting. For me it was a cry of relief because I never believed that he could be facing accusations of that nature.
”We cried on each other’s shoulders in that meeting and I told him that I believed him when he said he never received the money.”
Pikoli began his testimony by saying he had not been suspended on September 23 last year owing to a breakdown in relations with Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development Brigitte Mabandla, but rather because of the investigation into Selebi.
Selebi, who is on special leave, has made two court appearances in relation to allegations that he received money from drug trafficker and Brett Kebble murder accused Glenn Agliotti.
The initial indictment against Selebi contains allegations of corruption and defeating the ends of justice. He is due to go on trial in April 2008.
Pikoli said he first came to hear about the allegations against Selebi when he was asked to attend a meeting with Gauteng director of public prosecutions Charin de Beer in January 2006. He was told there was a problem with the investigation into Kebble’s murder.
South African Police Service investigators had informed De Beer that when Selebi saw the phone number of a friend in the investigation file, he phoned the friend and informed him that his number featured in the investigation. ”And the friend happened to be Mr Glenn Agliotti,” testified Pikoli.
He was also told that there had been telephonic contact between Kebble, Agliotti, Clinton Nassif — former security head for Kebble — and Selebi.
”Investigators were then concerned because the telephonic conversations were before the actual murder,” he said.
”They were obviously concerned when a suspect in a murder case is called to be told that his number features in the file of investigators who are investigating a murder case.”
The investigation continued, and he initiated meetings with Mabandla and Mbeki to keep them briefed.
He also said he was handed an affidavit that implicated a number of people in drug dealing, which included a number of policemen. ”These people were said to be having an association with the national commissioner of police.”
Later, when Nassif was arrested, he produced a ”very startling” affidavit containing what Pikoli considered were serious allegations.
Pikoli went ”beyond the call of duty” to brief Mabandla and Mbeki, even taking the affidavit with when he met them.
Mbeki advised him to discuss the matter with Selebi and that was when the two met.
However, Pikoli continued, he struggled to get information from the police on the Kebble murder, with an ”ugly” stand-off ensuing.
After Agliotti was arrested for Kebble’s murder, Pikoli went to Mbeki’s office to tell him, and asked for help in obtaining a docket in the Kebble murder. While he waited in Mbeki’s office, with Mbeki delaying a flight, Selebi was summoned and asked for the docket.
Selebi said he would find out where it was when two investigators returned from abroad and hand it over.
They did not receive it, and at a later meeting to obtain these documents, Selebi would not budge, Pikoli said. — Sapa