The ANC Youth League’s economic march through Johannesburg provoked furious debate in the ANC-led alliance. In separate question-and-answer sessions, Charles Molele quizzed ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe and youth league secretary general Sindiso Magaqa about the march and its wider political context.
Gwede Mantashe
What persuaded the ANC’s national working committee to support the ANC Youth League’s march in spite of objections in the alliance that it was part of a campaign to undermine President Jacob Zuma?
If you deal with the organisation that way, there will be no organisation. You must always take any campaign at face value until the organisers prove otherwise. I have no reason not to believe what the ANC Youth League takes as the main objective of the march. I take it at face value. That is how I will deal with it until there is deviant behaviour.
But the march plans to highlight the failure of the ANC’s policies to uplift the poor.
At the meeting with the youth league on Tuesday night, we were told that it had nothing to do with undermining government and 2012. Let’s give it the benefit of the doubt.
Are the issues raised by the youth league pertinent to the mother body?
Those issues are on the table and are part of the agenda of the ANC and the government. We agree that employment must be prioritised and that the private sector has not come to the party. The march seeks to nudge private capital to be part of finding solutions to the problems facing the country.
What about nationalisation? How much progress has the ANC made in its research?
The research team is wrapping up its work in China and will go back and finish its work in Botswana. We gave it until the end of the year. We’ll have a discussion with the team on November 10 and assess whether it can publish [its findings] by then.
What’s your reaction to President Jacob Zuma’s changes to the national executive?
When we said we welcomed it, we were honest. It’s important for the ANC leader to take action.
Was he reacting to pressure from civil society? Was he pushed into a corner?
When the preliminary report was released, there were immediate calls for the sacking of these ministers. Comrade Zuma allowed for processes to complete their course, analysed the reports and took action. If [his decision] was the result of pressure from civil society, I’m sure he would have acted three months ago.
Was it right to fire Co-operative Governance Minister Sicelo Shiceka while in hospital?
It was the correct decision. Any action taken must be directed at improving the overall performance of the government.
Why did it take so long to act?
The government pays attention to processes and I think that’s correct. If you took action every time there was a noise, there would be nobody left in Cabinet.
When will the ANC introduce a culture in which ministers resign voluntarily?
You must appreciate that the public protector releases preliminary reports and, unfortunately, she releases them publicly. The president must wait for the final report, go through it and allow processes to take their course.
Stories about the succession debate are doing the rounds every week. When are you going to open the debate?
In the ANC, we don’t have a succession debate. We are not chiefs, we don’t have heirs to the throne. We discuss leadership. Branches will nominate when the process is open to do so. Discussing leadership can be a continuous process. It has never been banned. People can discuss leadership all the time, assess the performance of leaders and when the nominations are open, nominate.
Sindiso Magaqa
Are these marches really about genuine economic and unemployment issues or are you demonstrating the league’s political muscle?
We’ve heard some leaders saying this march is aimed at undermining the government. There’s no such thing. This is our government, we campaigned for it. These marches are genuine marches by the young people of South Africa. People are unemployed and we’re bringing that to the attention of government and asking it to create jobs. Young people cannot sit and watch from the sidelines because we are the future, we’ll inherit this ANC and this government. We’re calling for nationalisation because it can help us achieve many of the country’s goals. We are requesting what belongs to us. This land was taken from our forefathers. We want our land back and we will not apologise for that.
Are you expecting to shake the government just by marching for two days?
This is the start of a long journey aimed at bringing back what belongs to us. We’ve got a lot of programmes that will ensure that we get our land back. When we get to the Union Buildings, we will conscientise our government about these things.
Why did the ANC Youth League need to mobilise disgruntled people, particularly in informal settlements where residents have a history of protesting against the government? Isn’t that a desperate bid for support?
We also went to universities because we’re calling for free education. We’ve involved all sectors of society. That’s why Contralesa [the traditional leaders’ congress], Santaco [taxi owners’ association] and Cosatu are coming on board. It’s because we engaged them.
The timing of your march is suspicious. Are you trying to influence the outcome of disciplinary proceedings against ANCYL leaders?
There’s nothing that connects these marches to the disciplinary committee. We took these decisions in June. There was no disciplinary hearing at the time that we took the decision to fight for economic freedom.
Are you not jumping the gun by marching for nationalisation when the ANC is still waiting for the findings of a task team mandated to look into the matter?
This is a struggle, it’s a revolution. It cannot wait for the ANC to make a decision. That process is continuing and we appreciate that, but that doesn’t mean the struggle should stop. Even if the nationalisation of mines is not adopted by the ANC conference, we will influence society.
It seems you hit a few stumbling blocks when preparing for these marches.
We’ve been getting reports from our provinces that people have been visiting them saying they are from the NIA [National Intelligence Agency] and asking questions about the number of buses hired for the march and who is paying for them. People should focus on our demands, not who is paying for us. There has been a lot of intimidation. The bus company pulled out because it can’t sacrifice government business for something that’s happening for one day only. It’s sad that this is happening in a democratic country. Fortunately, taxi owners cannot be intimidated. They don’t rely on government tenders so Santaco will transport our people.