Former national head of the Hawks Godfrey Lebeya told the Madlanga Commission that he had no knowledge of the so-called Big Five cartel and had never heard of its alleged leaders before evidence was presented to the commission.
"I have no knowledge of that organised criminal grouping at all and I even doubt if it is registered as an organised crime project. If so registered, maybe it might be with the detective services," Lebeya said.
The retired Hawks boss was questioned about the unit's alleged interference in a police raid at the Sandhurst residence of Katiso "KT" Molefe on 6 December 2024.
Molefe is alleged to be one of the leaders of the Big Five cartel, a criminal network whose alleged members had links to senior police officers and have featured prominently in evidence before the commission.
Lebeya was shown photographs of the alleged Big Five leaders, including Molefe, Steve Motsumi, Andrew "King Nyambose" Mthethwa, Ignatius Mothakathi and Jotham "King Mswazi" Msibi.
"I do not know them. And I don't think that it is strange that we do not know all the people in South Africa. I do not know them," Lebeya said.
Vusimuzi "Cat" Matlala has been described in evidence as the Big Five cartel's newest leader following the death of his alleged mentor, "King Mswazi" Msibi, on 7 January 2024.
But Lebeya said he had no recollection of hearing about Msibi while he was head of the Hawks.
"I only started hearing [about] Mr Msibi when the evidence was being provided to the commission," he said.
"I don't recall having heard about Mr Msibi. So these names, for me, I didn't know any of those involved in the taxi industry."
Evidence before the commission has shown that "King Nyambose" Mthethwa allegedly contacted Lebeya during the police raid and requested assistance for Molefe.
The operation was conducted by Gauteng Counter-intelligence in conjunction with the KwaZulu-Natal-based Political Killings Task Team (PKTT). The task team was disbanded three weeks later by suspended police minister Senzo Mchunu.
The police raid at Molefe and Matlala's residence on 6 December is said to have precipitated the disbandment of the task team on 31 December. This subsequently led to the removal of 121 case dockets from the task team by suspended deputy police commissioner Shadrack Sibiya.
Sibiya was alleged to have been receiving regular payments from Msibi. He also met with Matlala while he was acting national police commissioner to assist Matlala with his controversial R360 million Medicare24 contract.
Matlala has conceded to a "brotherly" relationship with now-retired KwaZulu-Natal Hawks boss Lesetja Senona. Lebeya and Senona have been implicated in the theft of 541 kg of cocaine with a street value of R200 million from the Hawks Port Shepstone facility.
Lebeya has denied involvement in the Port Shepstone drug theft and refuted Senona's evidence that he told Lebeya, as the supervisor, where the drugs would be stored.
Lebeya further denied knowing either "KT" Molefe or "King Nyambose" Mthethwa.
However, WhatsApp messages presented to the commission showed police informant Malcolm X relaying messages between Lebeya and Mthethwa during the raid at Molefe's residence.
One message thanked Lebeya for sending Hawks officers to the scene.
"Thank you for sending people who verified that these gentlemen are policemen and King Nyambose really appreciates all your efforts, General. It is a pity that the policemen you sent were not allowed inside the yard and house," Malcolm X wrote to Lebeya.
Despite the messages, Lebeya maintained that he did not know Mthethwa and said he first became aware of the alleged Big Five cartel through evidence presented at the commission.
"Yeah, at that stage, it did not come to me that I should question him about who this Nyambose is," Lebeya said.
The commission has previously heard that a large Hawks contingent arrived at Molefe's residence during the raid, allegedly intimidating the officers who were conducting the operation.
Captain Maxwell Wanda, one of the officers involved, testified that the Hawks contingent arrived in a helicopter.
"They came in numbers and I didn't expect them to be that many. And when I interacted with them, they were a bit aggressive, demanding answers, posing questions to me," Wanda said.
Warrant Officer Sabelo Nkosi also testified that Mthethwa approached him at the scene and handed him a cellphone with a Hawks commander on the other end of the line.
According to Nkosi, the Hawks commander sought to establish whether Nkosi had a warrant of arrest.
Lebeya told the commission that after receiving Molefe's address from Malcolm X, who had allegedly received it from Mthethwa, he contacted Hawks divisional commissioner Dumisani Mbotho.
Mbotho then instructed Hawks Brigadier Lesiba Mokoena to send officers to the Sandhurst residence. Mokoena activated the Hawks' Tactical Operation Management Section (TOMS), instructing officers to travel from Tshwane to the scene urgently.
But Mokoena told the commission that his instructions were limited to sending two officers.
"I sent two members. According to Captain Wanda's testimony, he said a group of Hawks members, so there's a difference from what my instruction was, with my two members only," Mokoena said.
Mbotho previously told the commission that there had been a "miscommunication" after the Hawks received a tip-off that individuals wearing balaclavas were impersonating Hawks officers during a bogus police raid.
"My instructions to [Mokoena] were in relation to whether the people that were at the door were real police or not because someone had gone there and said they were Hawks and Hawks said they had no operation," Mbotho said.
Witness A, a member of Gauteng Counter-intelligence, was the first witness to reveal details of the alleged Hawks interference at Molefe's residence.
He testified that he received a call at the scene from a senior officer who warned him that he was arresting "a person of the General".
"If there were real concerns that the operation was illegal, for whatever reason on their side, I would not expect an entire team from Hawks with a helicopter to descend on us and try to stop the operation," Witness A said.
Lebeya, however, maintained that the Hawks had not intended to interfere with the operation. He said there had been several instances in which police officers impersonated Hawks members during illegal house raids, necessitating the unit's verification of whether operations were legitimate.
"We have never said we are going to interrupt their operation. Members of SAPS have been caught pretending to be members of the Hawks. That is why we have to go [on operations]," Lebeya said.
The evidence concerning the Sandhurst raid has raised questions about why senior Hawks officers became involved in an operation that was being conducted by Gauteng Counter-intelligence and the PKTT and whether the Hawks' intervention was intended only to verify the identities of the officers at the scene.
The commission will resume on 15 September after a week-long break.
Commission chair Mbuyiseli Madlanga and evidence leader Sandile Khumalo are attending engagements that they had committed to before the commission received a three-month extension.