Wally Mbhele interviews the Mail & Guardian’s newsmaker of the year, Robert McBride
On a cold morning on April 9, South Africans woke up to what was to become one of the biggest thrillers of the year: the arrest of a senior government official in a foreign country. The official was none other than the controversial Robert McBride.
When stories emerged from Mozambique that he had been arrested for alleged gun-running, senior police officials said there was evidence McBride would remain in jail for many years.
In an attempt to explain why he would be buying guns, these officials said Irish Republican Army and East Timorese activists would be the recipients. And then, incredibly, they said he was involved – with various other government officials – in a plot to overthrow President Nelson Mandela’s government.
It was not until the Mail & Guardian uncovered the nefarious history of a man arrested with McBride – one Vusi Mbatha, an accomplished police and military intelligence spy – that the real story began to emerge. Heads began to roll as Mandela demanded to know the truth about the alleged plot against him.
It turned out that Mbatha was the
sole source behind McBride’s arrest, as well as a report leaked by the head of the South African National Defence Force, General Georg Meiring, which suggested a plot against Mandela. Meiring was subsequently fired and two senior policemen were removed from the McBride investigation.
McBride still spent six months in Machava prison in Maputo, where he was held on suspicion of gun-running, espionage and associating with “bad elements”.
In this exclusive end-of-year interview, he discusses his tumultuous 1998 and his hopes for 1999:
You were in prison before, after being convicted of murder for the Magoo’s Bar bombing. How did it feel to be jailed for a second time?
I was in prison longer before, and under worse conditions. To be in jail for righteous reasons is not something new to me.
I never get bitter. There are very few people in this country who have gone through the experiences I’ve been through. People find it strange I don’t have bitterness. I just think life is too short.
I know one of the investigators involved in this case against me has a wife and child in Mozambique, and he was using this investigation to try and visit them. I could expose that and give this guy’s name, but I won’t do that because that is his private business.
I’m not bitter to that extent. If the guy reads that I mention this, he will be convinced I’m not bitter because I should really be nailing him. But I’m not nailing him; he knows who he is, he knows what is he doing, but I won’t go out of my way and name him.
I believed right from the start that this thing would be sorted out quickly. I didn’t know that `quickly’ would take so long, that it would take six months.
I thought the Mozambicans would be able to see the set-up early on, but I presume some of them – for whatever reason – did not want to see through that set-up. I expected to be home after about six days, not six months.
Even when I heard [investigating officer] Suiker Britz’s comments about this wonderful evidence he had against me, I was not concerned. I knew this whole thing would come out. My general approach to life is that you take one problem at a time, step by step.
What was life like in Machava prison?
Prison in a sense all over the world concerns people who are behind bars and those who are outside … Inside a lot of your rights, freedoms and privileges are taken away. So you have to be in a position to beat the system all the time.
A lot of their warders are former Frelimo freedom fighters. When they found out about my background, there was an affinity which freedom fighters all over the world automatically have for each other.
Also I never lost respect for anybody, either prisoners or warders. And I didn’t let anybody lose respect for me, despite the difficult circumstances I was in. I never bowed or demeaned myself. They liked what they saw.
What about the claims of gun-running and espionage?
We were uncovering criminals who are sending weapons into our country. If that is espionage, I’m guilty.
Instead of being charged for espionage, I should be given a medal because this exposed Meiring and what some of our police are doing in Mozambique. This incident forced the enemies of democracy to leave sooner than expected.
People at ministerial level say, besides what happened and the six months I spent in jail, I helped expose people like Meiring and it was worthwhile in the end.
I’ve never been daring or undisciplined, but I feel people have to do what is supposed to be done. I just do what needs to be done, what is necessary. As long as I’m convinced what I’m doing is right, I’ll do it.
Do you see yourself playing a role in the next government?
I’m very modest. I never push myself. It depends on where the people want me placed, how they wish me to serve them. I’m here to serve them, not to rush to be a leader or a VIP.
Some of our leaders have been inaccessible. They don’t really get to the people and talk about problems. Maybe it’s because of the nature of their work.
We place too many constraints upon ourselves in moving forward in action. We always seem to be looking over our shoulders to see what the opposition parties will say.
We should be more concerned about the people we set a goal for ourselves to liberate. We fought and sacrificed for them.
They were the driving force behind the establishment of this democracy. We should be acting in their interests and be guided by their needs. Let’s not be apologetic and hesitant when we redress the imbalances of the past.
What do you see as the critical question facing the government since you came back?
What the grassroots people are saying is that some government officials have developed a greed for money and wealth. They see people sitting on many boards.
We must begin to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor. Black people should also acquire wealth, which should never be concentrated in the hands of the few again. People on the ground are watching.
However, life in general has tremendously improved for the people. I’m sitting here [in Katlehong township] comfortably …
Before bullets used to fly around here; there used to be trenches, barricades and marauding squads which used to march right in and kill people …
Even the infrastructure has improved. That is good.
What did people say about your arrest?
A lot of people said things about me when I was arrested, either privately or publicly. None of them – even from among our own people -have come to me to apologise for what they said when they know they created wrong impressions. I still have a problem with that.
But things are improving. There are positive developments. The African National Congress is now paying school fees for my children because I’m still paying a lot of my legal costs incurred in Mozambique.
What about the attitude of whites towards you?
Since I came back from Mozambique, a large number of them, even Afrikaner tannies, reach out to me and shake hands with me.
For a long time they were fed disinformation aimed at nailing me as a monster. They want to portray me as undisciplined and mad. But I’m not going to allow that to be successful.
There has to come a time to realise that I’ll be around for a very long time and they’ll have to accept it.
Are you still employed by the Department of Foreign Affairs?
Yes, although I’m still under suspension. But I hope the suspension will be lifted early next year. I don’t see the Mozambicans calling me back to face the charges.