After a week of high tension over the future role of controversial mayor Peter Marais in the Democratic Alliance, matters come to a head at the party’s national management committee meeting on Friday. DA deputy leader Marthinus van Schalkwyk spoke to Marianne Merten
Marianne Merten (MM): Is there a war of nerves and words between you and Tony Leon over the character of the Democratic Alliance?
Marthinus van Schalkwyk (MvS): It is not that. That is the story planted in the media. It is firstly about the principle of fairness. [Peter Marais] was found not guilty by a multi- party rules committee: not only NP [National Party] hacks, DP [Democratic Party] people voted him not guilty. I would have stood up for any other person in the same situation, also a member of the DP component. It is wrong if one leader has the right to hire and fire people that he likes or dislikes. It is actually wrong to deal with council issues at a national management committee. It is a new experience to me.
The second issue involved is an issue of different communities. The NNP [New National Party] and its predecessors made many mistakes, but the one thing we were successful with over the past few years was bringing the white and coloured community together. This is without any doubt an element of what is happening.
MM: Why are you defending Marais, against whom you acted last February for criticising moves towards an alliance?
MvS: Peter has made some mistakes. I had to take the decision that he should be fired, his membership of the Western Cape cabinet should be suspended. When I did that nobody said it’s unfair, it’s a racial issue, because people felt he did act wrongly. But here there’s a different feeling.
MM: You’ll stand by him even if he is regarded as an embarrassment to the party?
MvS: It’s on the basis of principle. If we disregard the principle here then we are on a slippery slope – where, in a party, there will be no checks and balances to protect people.
MM: Is opposition politics as a whole on a slippery slope?
MvS: I hope not. That will all depend on Friday’s meeting.
MM: Is a compromise possible between yourself and DA leader Tony Leon?
MvS: It’s difficult to see what kind of a compromise there can be on an issue like this. Either he [Marais] stays on as mayor or he does not. It’s two pretty irreconcilable viewpoints at the moment. But in politics solutions are always possible.
MM: Do you think the alliance will break up?
MvS: I will try my utmost [to ensure] that it does not split. I put a lot of political capital into this and the NNP as well. It will be a setback for the country if it splits. I think it would be one of the huge misjudgements in recent South African politics if this process [against Marais] that was set in motion, not by me, ends up in the alliance splitting.
But I cannot allow myself to be intimidated by the threat [of splitting the alliance]. I’m simply reacting to ultimatums and certain actions.
MM: How do you feel about these ultimatums and the demand from Leon that Marais resign?
MvS: I personally do not like things to happen in this way. I think ultimatums are something that you reserve for your political enemies, not for your political friends and your partners. But sometimes it happens and you deal with it.
MM: What is your reaction to the survey that found Marais not as popular as assumed?
MvS: There is only one poll that is important, that is an election. Marais was elected with a very healthy majority. I can’t comment a poll that I haven’t seen.
MM: What are the real issues in the Marais saga?
MvS: It has the elements of – let me put it bluntly – race. It has the element of an unfair process. It has the element of the individual not being treated properly and fairly. The real issue is that if you build a bigger party you must be able to accommodate different people, people with different styles. You must be able to build a party with people you dislike. And if you can’t do that, if you only want clones running around, then you will become a smaller and smaller party.
MM: How do you react to claims that you are defending the narrow interests of coloured nationalism, and risk reducing the NNP to a regional party?
MvS: I did not have one of these political considerations in mind when I took my decision. I didn’t choose this issue. I did not choose the timing. It was forced on me. You are talking about the so-called coloured dimension.
Let me address it straight on: I get upset when I see clever lawyers with all their years of legal experience and expertise using every law and every word in the law to get at someone. I also have a legal background, but then I come to a point where I say: if something is not fair, it is not right and you have to stand up.
MM: Your strong views on the DA leadership last Friday caused unhappiness. Your comment?
MvS: It was not an attack on Mr Leon. I do not have the luxury to go out and say I differ with the decision and then not give my reasons. There is no way I can be so vague about my reasons that nobody can understand what I am saying. I have to explain myself.
MM: Do you expect to be disciplined?
MvS: There are many people on our side who are saying that kind of knife can become a double-edged sword.
MM: Your relationship with Leon has gone through several rough patches. Is there a personality clash?
MvS: I have never experienced it that way from my side. I have respect for him. But it’s true in a party you often have several stronger personalities and you must be able to mould them into a team. You must be able to work together.
MM: Do you want to be DA co-leader, rather than its deputy leader?
MvS: No. That is also one of the stories that the spin doctors spread around. It is nonsense. But there must come a time when you really tire of people weaving that kind of web of illusions, taking the focus from the real issue.