Pan Africanist Congress voter support fell from 1,2% to 0,7% between 1994 and 1999. Why has an Africanist party so abjectly failed to reach the African masses?
We’ve arrested that decline; our support rose again in the 2000 local elections. The party did not have organisational capacity or structures on which to base its operations, and we’ve done a lot of work on the ground to ensure we have structures in all provinces and regions.
In terms of the election, we’ve ensured transparent candidate selection for the first time, to ensure members own the process.
Last week the African National Congress trounced you in your only municipal ward in Gauteng. Doesn’t this foreshadow the general election?
The result, in a PAC stronghold, was quite shocking for me. I don’t want to sound like a bad loser, but I don’t believe we lost by fair means. For example, at three polling stations the ANC polled a square 400, which is not convincing; and at one station votes could not be reconciled. The result reflects nothing, except we could be cheated along similar lines come April 14.
The PAC split when Stanley Mokgoba became president, and again when Thami ka Plaatjie quit last year. Why can’t you settle differences without splintering?
I admit splits and factions are worrying, but we’ve gone a long way to overcoming them. When an organisation stagnates, it tends to haemorrhage; we’re more focused now.
The problems after last year’s congress were largely confined to the Eastern and Western Cape, and we’ve invested a lot of time and resources there. We’ve de-emphasised the formal townships and moved into informal settlements and rural areas — not our usual diet.
Wasn’t the defection of Patricia de Lille, your only visible MP, a grievous blow?
Pat was our prime Western Cape candidate in 1994, but we got nothing from her. Again in 1999, her ”popularity” didn’t translate into PAC votes. I’m still very bitter that she left with our seat. When Roelf Meyer quit, he started again from scratch.
Patricia is a waffler, and not an organisational person. She’s a creation of the media, because she’s done a good job for white liberals. They’ve made her famous because of her attacks on the ANC. She’s done nothing for people on the ground.
Since Potlako Leballo in the 1960s, the PAC has been serially damaged by weak leaders. How do you stop that?
I agree with Stalin — we must expose and learn from our mistakes. Our history has been one of missed opportunities and unbelievable incompetence. It would wrong to blame Western imperialism and the media while ignoring the internal dynamics.
[Robert] Sobukwe and [Zeph] Mothopeng became great by rising to the challenges of their time. Our challenge is to be relevant to the present and future, rather than focusing on our glorious past.
Your core value is pan-Africanism. Hasn’t the ANC — through its strong support for Nepad and the African Union — stolen this mantle?
If the ANC is taking a pan-African stance, we welcome it. They seem to have had a Damascus Road experience — in exile they accused us of being racist; they said: ”We’re South Africans, not Africans.” But they’re stretching to accommodate the realities of the times — they can slide backwards. It is we who have consistently called for one united and socialist state from Cape to Cairo.
In your ”socialist Azania”, would you nationalise all private industry?
Broadly speaking, we want a central role for the state in the economy; we wouldn’t leave things to market forces. But we wouldn’t be doctrinaire — international dynamics at any given time would determine how far to go in ensuring public ownership. Whatever the circumstances, social services would stay in state hands. The ANC has moved to privatise water, health and electricity, and that would be a strict no-no.
You support Zimbabwe’s ”land- reform programme”. Would you also seize land without compensation here?
Our circumstances are different but the objective is the same: equitable land distribution. Whites own land out of all proportion to population size. But we want everything done within a legal and constitutional framework to avoid disrupting the economy. The ”willing buyer, willing seller” approach has not worked; we reject that. We would pass laws to empower government to acquire land, and only pay for improvements, not the land itself. We’d also limit the land one person could own.
In the past the PAC put so much emphasis on land it came over as a peasant party, but you can’t talk to university students on that basis. And we have no intention of driving whites from the country. Individually, there are good whites and bad Africans — we’re only concerned with whites as a social force that owns wealth and occupies land.
Your campaign pledges a R500 monthly allowance for unemployed people. For how long? Have you costed the proposal?
The ANC public works programme won’t solve poverty because it’s temporary and most of the money will go to those who win the tenders — the people will get peanuts. Northern countries provide for their unemployed throughout their unemployment, and we would move in that direction. We haven’t done costings — our orientation is that the principle has to be accepted first. But we have too many provinces — a hangover from the homeland system — and that would be our first cost-cutting measure.
There’s some confusion about your election slogan ”Sodla Sonkhe [We will all eat].” Do you mean it’s your turn to have power and resources?
Those who are confused don’t know Zulu. It means ”we will share”. The last 10 years have worsened the concentration of wealth in South Africa. We can’t have a situation where the majority remains outside the gates, hearing the minority partying inside the palace.