/ 23 September 2004

Standing proud

Riaan Wolmarans puts 10 tough questions to Evert Knoesen, director of South Africa’s Equality Project, as the country’s annual Gay Pride celebrations kick off in Johannesburg.

How much influence do the Equality Project and similar organisations really have?

Influence, I believe, is dependent on a combination of four things. These are the legitimacy of your cause, your track record, your positioning in terms of the overall body politic and your ability to communicate your message effectively. We are able to influence outcomes through advocacy, litigation and public education. I believe we have reached a stage where we are able, based on these factors, to influence outcomes for the better. This notion is supported by the 35 legal changes and all the court cases won in our decade of democracy.

This year’s Gay Pride theme is same-sex marriage. For many gay and lesbian people it’s just an excuse for a big party. Which is more important?

Both are important. Due to our past and continuing oppression, being able to party publicly as a large group of homosexuals, visible in one space, is worthwhile in itself. After all, we are the only country in Africa where you can do so! I have always believed, however, that Pride can carry a powerful political message when it is framed in a contemporary, sexy manner. This was proven by the fact that the most successful Pride thus far was in 1999 when more than 30 000 people gathered around the political theme of Recognise Our Relationships.

Last weekend, voters in Louisiana, United States, overwhelmingly voted against a state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages and civil unions. Should same-sex marriage be put to the vote in South Africa?

There have been may interesting developments on same-sex marriage internationally during the past year or so, in places as far apart as Canada and Taiwan. One general trend is emerging, however, and that is a trend toward allowing equal marriage between people of the same sex.

We believe the time for this idea has come. I do not believe, however, that it is something that should be put to the vote, because, in a sense, it already has. South Africans overwhelmingly supported the adoption of our Constitution. Our Constitution is very clear on the issue of sexual-orientation equality, and the implications for marriage between people of the same sex must have been clear from the outset. I believe the people have spoken.

The Gay and Lesbian Alliance wants police to arrest drag queens. Why would the alliance make such a controversial statement?

Desperate reactionaries with no support, no track record and no future will make any noise in a desperate attempt to be heard.

The media often focus on drag queens in the Gay Pride parade, ignoring the many ”normal-looking” people in the parade. Is this to the detriment of gay and lesbian people in general?

Drag queens are central to our history of liberation as lesbian and gay people. Drag queens led the Stonewall riots in the 1960s in the United States and were among the most frequently arrested people in South Africa. To shun them or pretend they don’t exist would be a terrible disservice to ourselves and a further injustice to an oppressed class of people. Sadly, within the lesbian and gay community, there may be those who pretend it is only ok to be gay if you fit the so-called ”straight-acting” image.

It is unfortunate, though, that the media coverage of Pride in its focus on drag queens and scantily clad buff guys fails to reflect the diversity of our community. Maybe one day the media coverage will include the families, the children and the so-called ”jeans and tekkies” majority, too.

Should the city of Johannesburg do more to support the yearly Gay Pride celebrations?

I believe so. We believe Johannesburg to be the leading city in Africa. We should pride ourselves in the wealth of diverse people who live here. This would include supporting Pride. It is important to know, however, that the city does support Pride and agencies such as Johannesburg Tourism and City Parks have done much to make this event possible.

The depth of the political commitment to Pride from both local and provincial government was demonstrated by the swift and unqualified manner in which the unfortunate confusion around drag queens at Pride was dealt with. Even the Metro Police have been of great service in policing Pride over the years.

If same-sex marriage should become legal, what would the next challenge for the gay-rights movement in South Africa be?

Many of the rights we have already gained, and marriage would be no different, remaining abstract for the majority of lesbian and gay people. They are denied the realising their rights through not knowing of these rights, lack of awareness among civil servants who have to deliver these rights, and poverty, among other things.

To us, marriage is in a strange way incidental. We would much rather not have mounted a big marriage campaign and rather spent our scarce resources in implementing rights already gained. Unfortunately, in the absence of the equal right to choose to marry and whom you want to marry, we remain as second-class citizens in our democracy. It is impossible for us to participate equally in society as long as we are relegated to this second-class citizen status and it is for this reason that marriage is so important.

Which political parties best support gay rights in South Africa?

The African National Congress has passed about 35 pro-sexual-orientation laws since it came into government in 1994. This is law reform on a scale unprecedented anywhere in the world. The Democratic Alliance, the Independent Democrats and the United Democratic Movement have also maintained official party positions that support sexual-orientation equality. We are therefore in the most privileged of positions to say that there is substantive political consensus in South Africa in support of equality.

Which political parties are worst at supporting gay rights in South Africa?

The Gay and Lesbian Alliance and the African Christian Democratic Party. The Gay and Lesbian Alliance is very bad for sexual-orientation rights because it is an embarrassment to our entire community and it makes all of us look like reactionary crackpots. It is sometimes hard to explain to the media and the general public that the alliance does not reflect the views of lesbian and gay people at all.

The ACDP is problematic because it preaches a monolithic, unloving variety of Christianity that paints only its supporters as God’s people and all the rest of us as evil and doomed to hell. Though I have never much worried about its political influence, because I think most South Africans are too smart to be fooled by fundamentalists, its influence on the youth concerns me.

If you keep telling your kids, who cannot change who they are, that their very being is evil, it undermines their sense of self-worth and contributes to things such as substance abuse, general psychopathology and suicide. I think people like them (the ACDP) bear some responsibility for the high rate of teenage suicide.

How do South African Gay Pride celebrations affect gay and lesbian people in less tolerant Southern African countries, if at all?

It serves as a beacon of hope for the entire African lesbian and gay movement. I am often concerned that many people do not understand how important this is for our brothers and sisters in Africa. But perhaps even more important than that, we agree with our President, Thabo Mbeki, that as Africans, we should not be asked to follow, but much rather, to lead.