Helen Zille, national spokesperson of the official opposition Democratic Alliance, speaks to the Mail & Guardian Online about the perils of floor-crossing, changes to South Africa’s education laws, the controversy surrounding Jacob Zuma and her choice for the country’s next president.
1. Does the Democratic Alliance expect to gain many people during the floor-crossing window period from September 1 to 15? What is your opinion of floor-crossing?
We’ve taken a position against floor-crossing. We believe that it has not worked in the way originally intended to enable people to follow their principles and their conscience … it really has enabled a strong party to offer people promotions to cross the floor, and thereby encourages chequebook politics.
Our system of floor-crossing has an in-built bias against the opposition and in favour of the ruling party that can abuse its access to the gravy train to offer promotions as a reward to floor-crossers.
In terms of who is likely to come to the DA … there is speculation in the media. There are talks that [Independent Democrats MPL] Themba Sono may come. He used to be with us and now there is talk that he may come back to us. That just makes the voters cynical. I have absolutely no idea [about other party defectors]. I haven’t been involved in this. I just read about it in the papers.
2. The Education Laws Amendment Bill is currently before Parliament. You called Minister of Education Naledi Pandor’s commitment to quality education an “empty rhetoric”. What would you have done?
I would have begun by identifying the root causes of the problems in education. The Education Laws Amendment Bill, currently before Parliament, shows that Pandor’s diagnosis of the problem is entirely wrong. She is therefore applying wrong solutions that will only make the problems worse.
I would introduce a funding formula that follows the individual child and not the institution. This would increase the ability of poor families to have a choice of school and to send their children to better schools. Secondly, I would introduce significant incentives to get the best teachers into the weaker schools.
Thirdly, I would have left functional schools alone to choose teachers on the bases of competence and not race.
And Pandor has done the opposite of all of those three things.
Race is now going to become the most important factor in the employment of teachers, not competence. The DA is fundamentally opposed to race-based politics.
3. English is no longer going to be compulsory in schools. What is your opinion on the matter?
Anyone who learns in English will have to do English as a compulsory subject. Ninety-seven percent of schools in South Africa have chosen English as a method of instruction and 3% of schools have chosen [to be] Afrikaans-medium. They have a choice. I can’t think of many people who would not choose to learn English, either as a second or third language. And that applies to other South African languages as well.
4. What do you have to say about the Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) wanting to reinstate Zuma as deputy president?
Cosatu obviously doesn’t understand the Constitution and the law. The president has the right to constitute the Cabinet and to hire and fire his ministers.
First, Cosatu asked that Zuma have his day in court and now they want all charges to be dropped and for him to be reinstated as deputy president. Those are contradictory positions. Every thinking South African will urge Cosatu to abide by the Constitution and the rule of law.
5. What is the DA’s long-term goal as a party and in terms of gaining more supporters?
Well, our long-term goal is to become the government. And we don’t think it’s going to be as long-term as your smile suggests. It might be a lot shorter-term than you think. We will begin by taking power in those areas where it is possible to do so, such as in certain local authorities.
Does the DA believe it will ever stand a chance to become the ruling party?
We can see what is happening in the ANC. There is growing division in the constituency in the ANC. And if the ANC splits, anything is possible.
6. You’ve been called a “small white boys’ club” that mainly appeals to white South Africans. How are you going to broaden your appeal?
The more people say we only appeal to white South Africans, the more we grown among brown and Indian and black South Africans … the chattering classes aren’t in touch with the grassroots. We have a very significant brown support base, a growing Indian support base and a growing black support base.
To call us a small white boys’ club is actually a racist insult. Just think if somebody turned that insult around. It would be outrageous. Somehow, if you are racist towards white men, it is acceptable. Well, it’s not acceptable to us.
[If you look at the insult] the opposite is true. We’ve got our national chairperson who is a black man. Our deputy chairperson is a black male … they certainly don’t belong to any white boys’ club. And I’m the national vice-chairperson. To all of us, our colour is irrelevant. We are colleagues, we believe in the same values and have the same vision for South Africa … our colour is irrelevant. We believe in the same politics of values and issues.
We’ve got 85 branches in Cape Town, and most of those branches are in areas which would not previously have been classified white. These members would be deeply insulted to be described as members of a white boys’ club.
7. The DA was hoping to gain seats from the now-defunct New National Party, but three from the NNP are planning to defect to the ANC. How does the DA plan to gain control of the Western Cape again, since you already hold a two-thirds majority of the 100 wards in Cape Town?
Through the voters. Politics is not about bribing people to cross the floor. It’s about what the voters want.
The whole thing about the NNP in the Western Cape is the most cynical matter. Piet Meyer was reported to be about to cross the floor to the United Party (UP), which was said to be contemplating a broad coalition with the DA. The ANC were so worried about that that they offered him a consul-general post in Taiwan.
It was basically a bribe to stop him joining the UP while still a member of the legislature. That just shows you how misused this floor-crossing thing is … basically to bribe people to keep the ANC in power.
Piet Meyer has been offered a diplomatic post, a chequebook-politics post. The ANC has a long gravy train, a very long gravy train.
Political parties built on floor-crossing are doomed.
That’s not the way you build your support. You build your support through the voters and elections. Not through bribing people to cross the floor.
The DA has adopted the following resolution: that anyone who crosses to us cannot get any promotion for two years. If they come to us, they must come to us because they believe in what we do and in what we stand for, not because they are looking for a higher position.
8. What do you think about the state of media in South Africa? Do you think some are biased towards any political party?
All newspapers have their preferences. Only if you’re the public broadcaster must you be totally even-handed. As long as [newspapers] separate comment from the news, that’s ok. I’m a very old-fashioned journalist in that way. I don’t want to see comment in something that is supposed to be news.
I think the press is actually growing and maturing in South Africa. The problem is with the public broadcaster [the South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC)]. They are almost like an ANC mouthpiece. That’s why we call them the SANC.
[The ANC] basically launched their election campaign at Kliptown [at the 50-year anniversary celebration of the Freedom Charter]. [It cost] R187 000 of public money to broadcast the event … the SABC paid for it. That’s outrageous for the public broadcaster. Thank goodness for e.tv.
9. Who do you think will be our new president? Why?
Now you’re asking me to look into a crystal ball and guess. I must say, until Oilgate I’ve always had a very high regard for Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka. I think she’s a highly intelligent women and I think she’s straightforward — I like her. I always hoped she would be, but I don’t think she will be.
I would like Trevor Manuel to be. Either Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka or Manuel, but perhaps I should put my money on Charles Nqakula. He’s a gentle person. He used to work with me at the Rand Daily Mail. I just think he has the various attributes that [President] Thabo Mbeki’s looking for. But I also haven’t ruled out the possibility of Thabo Mbeki going for a third term. I think that would be a very bad idea. I’m hoping that won’t happen.
10. What, in your opinion, is the greatest challenge facing South Africa?
It is a complete scandal that children in schools today are less able to read, write and calculate at the level of a decade ago. Redistribution has happened … the scandal is that despite the fact that it happened, the quality has gone backwards.
There are millions of people unemployed because they are unemployable.