”I’m not ready for the Yellow Pages,” says Azmi Bishara, the exiled former leader of Arab nationalist party Balad, when I quiz him about his itinerary on his visit to South Africa. That seemingly cryptic statement, I soon discover, is characteristic of his dry humour, which surfaces when Bishara puts aside politics and speaks about his young family, his works of fiction (one tellingly titled Checkpoint) and his pet hate: talk shows. In fact, the Yellow Pages reference was about him avoiding the objectification he feels is inherent in talk shows, which he has been sidestepping all week.
It’s obvious that Bishara’s politics has nothing to with the opportunism and disingenuity that prevails in Israel. Since forming the party in 1995, Bishara and his comrades’ agenda has been either to transform the state of Israel into a democratic country that offers equal rights to all its citizens or establish a two-state solution based on the borders that stood prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. The 51-year-old stepped down from the Israeli Knesset earlier this year amid allegations of treason and espionage (which he denies) and has been living in various Arab countries, including Jordan and Qatar.
What brings you to South Africa?
My third visit here is a meeting for consultation with officials such as Ronnie Kasrils and Aziz Pahad about the Palestinian situation in the Middle East. It’s a very quiet visit, but includes two public lectures on obstacles to democratisation in Arab countries and the irrationality of the US policies in the Middle East.
Strategically, how important an ally is South Africa for your aspirations in the Middle East, specifically Israel?
It is very important, especially for me, because it’s part of my biography. I studied with ANC activists in Germany. I was active in the anti-apartheid movement in Europe and in Israel. So it’s not only rational but emotional in my case.
Also, there is a resemblance between the structure of [apartheid] South Africa and that of Israel. We should always remember that Israel was the most important ally for the South African regime during apartheid times. I don’t want this to be forgotten. Some remnants of the apartheid regime here would like to see South Africa play a more neutral role, as if the Palestinians and Israelis are two [equal] sides. There are victims and victimisers. The one type of violence is a daily, banal violence against the old population and the other is a resistance to that.
When did you lose your parliamentary immunity?
My immunity has been taken twice before because I spoke about the right of the Palestinians and the Lebanese to resist the occupation and this was considered inciting the people to violence. The Geneva Convention says people have a right to resist occupation by all means that they possess. So I didn’t even say it. That trial took two years and was dismissed in 2003.
In 2001, it was about me wanting to maintain relations with Arab countries. We are isolated in Israel as Arabs, and Israel looks at the Arab nations as its enemy. But my immunity allowed me to go to those countries. So they dismissed that too.
Former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it was best that you never return to Israel. Do you think a return to your country is feasible?
Of course I wish I could go back, but not under their conditions, which are to turn me into a criminal. They failed with the ideological and political charges, but now they are saying I helped the ”enemy” in the time of war. I wish I could have helped the Lebanese because they were dealing with barbaric aggressors, but I didn’t have the means to.
Have they charged you already?
No, they have suspicions. They have launched such an excitement campaign it is unprecedented even by Israeli standards. They want to settle accounts with me because we [Balad] came out with progressive political argument that expropriated from them this monopoly on democratic discourse in the Middle East.
What informed the values that your party espoused?
Originally, I come from the Communist Party, but even before the demise of the Soviet Bloc I learned that what we can take from the left heritage is the idea of social justice. We believed socialism of the state is capitalism of the state. It is one of the worst forms of capitalism. From socialism, if you take the idea of property of the state, with time it changes into bureaucracy, which is capital bureaucracy. It actually prevents the development of the forces of production and prevents democracy.
Why did you resign?
It came in the context of the persecution that is going on now. Anyway, they would have made a great deal of it and stripped me of my immunity. So I saved them the whole festival. I had plans to retire from parliamentary work anyway and concentrate more on writing. I write politics, novels and philosophy. It’s a lot of work.
What do you think might bring about bi-nationality speedily.
In a speedy fashion it won’t happen. The problem is that people are learning that the Palestinian state is only a bantustan. It is not emerging as a real sovereign Palestinian state and, secondly, their refugee problems won’t be solved. People who were uprooted are not going to come back home in the two-state model [that Israel proposes].
So it’s not really a two-state model. Also, the national Palestinian movement is splitting because there are people who are willing to accept whatever Israel gives them and to derive from it whatever is possible, even if it is less than the borders on the fourth of June (prior to the Arab-Israeli War), less than east Jerusalem and without the right of return. It is really problematic.