/ 18 July 2009

‘Reports aren’t charge sheets’

Gwede Mantashe spoke to the Mail& Guardian about some of the pressing challenges facing the new government and the ruling party, including surging industrial action, corruption and conflict in the provinces.

There have been numerous service delivery protests in recent weeks. Does this worry the new ANC leadership?
Protests are always a concern; they’re signs that we need to attend to those areas. We will make a distinction between genuine service delivery protest and manifestations of infighting in those communities. But we cannot make those distinctions unless we go there. That’s why our provinces become quite crucial in understanding the protests.

A South African Medical Association (Sama) survey has shown that the overwhelming majority of doctors reject the government’s occupation specific dispensation (OSD) offer. What more can the ANC do to prevent further strike action?
Bargaining requires strong parties on both sides. That’s why you’ll see the difference in how the strike of construction workers was handled by the National Union of Mineworkers and how the strike of doctors was handled by Sama. Where there’s no capacity and experience to manage collective bargaining, you will always have a crisis.

My own view is that when you bargain on behalf of a constituency, you don’t get feedback by conducting a survey, you report back to structures and structures take decisions. Because collective bargaining is not about getting everything, it’s about appreciating that the compromises that are made. If you don’t have that theme that leads the bargaining, then you use a survey. That means that strike action is leaderless.

Are trade unions exacerbating the economic crisis by striking?
It’s the bargaining season; it will come whether there is a crisis or not. Unions should continue doing what they should do, but that goes with the responsibility of leadership. That’s why I’m drawing the distinction between how the two structures have been led. A strike must be led.

Are you concerned about the ANC’s provincial structures?
No organisation will have provincial structures on the same level of development (as each other). There will be problems. We’ve been open about the fact that that we’re concerned about the Western Cape, North West and the Eastern Cape. We’re also concerned that Cope established a visible percentage in the Northern Cape. Those issues have not disappeared from the radar screen. The Eastern Cape should be going to an early conference instead of waiting for December.

How will you settle the conflict in the North West ANC, which is creating tensions between the PEC and the NEC?
There is no tension between the NEC and the PEC. There are problems in the North West. The NEC will discuss the report about the state of the organisation there and take an appropriate decision.

There are encouraging signs that some provincial and national ministers are dealing with corruption, but also inconsistencies, including the fact that the prisons department is to terminate its investigation against senior officials…
Media reports are not charge sheets and we must never treat them as charge sheets, because if we do that, many people are going to be destroyed. Some of them get published and down the line it’s proved that factually that was not an efficient report. An organisation must work on concrete evidence. In the short time of this new government there are signs that the ANC is dealing with corruption. Those signs should be encouraged rather than saying: why don’t you do more?

There are perceptions that President Jacob Zuma has been silent on a number of issues in the country, such as the debate on nationalisation. What is your take on this?
Newspapers have being saying we don’t see the president; he’s invisible. In the same newspaper you’ll see a story that says we’re not happy with the appointment of the JSC. Basically, newspapers don’t see the president, but feel him, but they want him to take up street fights. The media wants the president to serve their interest, as if there is no organisation. It doesn’t mean that the president must speak on all issues. It doesn’t work that way.