James Ngcobo’s second act

‘It’s about the loyal patrons who come to the theatre. They are the biggest shareholder in this scenario’

‘We have time to grow old” is one of James Ngcobo’s favourite quotes from a play. It is from Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot, in which he featured when it was staged at Joburg Theatre in 1998. 

The existentialist play, where, famously, nothing happens, deals with the conundrum of time. It follows characters Vladimir and Estragon as they pass time waiting for an elusive figure named Godot who never appears. The idle pair struggle with their own inability to use time effectively. 

Ngcobo, the multi-award-winning actor, writer and director who became the first black artistic director of The Market Theatre Foundation nine years ago, meets me at a coffee shop the day before he starts his position as artistic director of Joburg City Theatres. 

The Safta-winning actor from Netflix’s Queen Sono and SABC3’s Hard Copy has been tasked with developing and implementing an artistic vision for Joburg City Theatres’s 10 spaces at Joburg Theatre, Roodepoort Theatre, Soweto Theatre and Jabulani Amphitheatre.

He carries the same passionate energy he had nine years ago when he was doing media tours for his new position at the Market Theatre. 

His raspy voice sparks memories of Mojo Khumalo, the sweet-natured family man he portrayed in the internationally acclaimed sitcom Stokvel. 

One would be mistaken to assume he receives his favourite quote from Godot with the same grinding tone it conveys. He waxes lyrical about its meaning to him. 

“It’s about what we do as the hands of time move. How can we synchronise our lives with the beat of time? What is our output as time moves on? Growing old is a destination that will definitely happen. But when Vladimir says ‘we have time to grow old’, to me it speaks to how there is so much to do. 

“It doesn’t give me anxiety; it gives me drive. I come from a people where if you die, you go back home. What matters to me is what we do as we gallop towards the grave.” 

Ngcobo’s inexhaustible approach to life is uplifting, rather than overwhelming. It is also refreshing, considering our country’s current stasis, where rolling blackouts rule the day and night, interrupting routines, hampering productivity and producing a profound sense of inertia. 

When the lights cut off in the middle of our interview, I give a mental sigh of vexation. Ngcobo, on the other hand, continues to speak with fervour, either because he does not notice or because he’s unaffected. 

Similarly, when the country and the world came to a standstill at the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, he kept his momentum. 

The already struggling cultural and creative industry was crumbling under the Covid restrictions as well as a lack of proper funding from the government. Theatres shut down in March 2020, leaving many artists financially deprived, resulting in public demonstrations against the National Arts Council in Johannesburg and other centres. 

“One of the most challenging times I’ve had as an artistic director was when everything was closing down during the pandemic,” says Ngcobo. “Everything was so uncertain, but at the same time, I knew in my heart we couldn’t just do the easy thing and close the theatre. We had to do something else.” 

Ngcobo became involved in The Market Theatre’s mission to revive theatre during one of the industry’s bleakest eras under a campaign called #TheatreWillRiseAgain. For this Ngcobo gathered some of the country’s leading actors, dancers, poets and musicians and curated a programme of home-recorded monologues and solo performances for online viewing. These videos soon graduated to a project called Ditshomo Storytime Season, which commissioned playwrights and choreographers to premier 20-minute productions filmed with high-definition cameras for streaming. 

By the end of that year, the Market Theatre became one of the first theatres to open during the pandemic.

“I’ve never had to fight for something like I did during that time. It was risky, getting permits to go to meetings. People felt afraid but, personally, I just wanted to keep things going. Eventually, with the lockdown regulations in mind, we were churning out productions and audiences were able to see us. People were taking that small window before the arrival of curfew to drive to The Market and watch a play. 

“The thing is, it’s important for us to learn how to continue making beautiful theatre at a time when there isn’t enough money. How do we make sure that the lack of money is not stifling the aspirations that lie in our hearts as creatives? Of course, one isn’t naive about the realities we live in but we must keep on trying.”

The KwaMashu-born actor never got to study theatre at university, but like a root in dry ground, he’s managed to absorb every piece of knowledge and inspiration, wherever he’s been. His education comes from a variety of figures, such as Saira Essa, actress and the director of You Can’t Stop the Revolution, a play in which Ngcobo featured during its opening at London’s Young Vic Theatre when he was still of school-going age. 

Then there was actor Nicholas Ellenbogen, who was artistic director at the Loft Theatre Company in Durban (where Ngcobo received a lot of his training) and writer and activist Es’kia Mphahlele, who offered the young writer a masterclass in “writing from a place of experience” when he lunched with him at a Market Theatre restaurant a year before he died. “He left an indelible mark in my heart,” says Ngcobo. 

Add to that list greats like Patrick Shai, who played the school principal Edwin Thapelo in Yizo Yizo, before Ngcobo took over the role in season two, as well as Nomhle Nkonyeni, Owen Sejake, Siyabonga Thwala, Fana Mokoena and many other acting greats, who make up the rich tapestry of South African entertainment. 

He singles out South African-American film and theatre actor Zakes Mokae who featured in international series like The West Wing, Starsky & Hutch, The X-Files, Oz, 

A Different World and Knight Rider.

“Zakes is someone I really admire, a man who I have such great respect for among the actors who have come out of this country. When we talk about giants, he really is a giant that, sadly, this country has forgotten. We don’t mention Zakes or how he was the first South African actor to break into Hollywood in the way he did. 

“I feel honoured to have directed the theatrical version of Athol Fugard’s Master Harold and the Boys, an American drama film that Zakes was in, as well as Blood Knot, a play both Fugard and Zakes brought to the stage in 1961.”

Although Ngcobo mentions in a another interview “he did not have the privilege to go to university”, it is the learning experiences he’s gathered among industry peers and teachers, along with his gusto, commitment to achieving and sense of innovation and leadership, that contributed to his appointment as Joburg City Theatres’s artistic director. 

He says one of his first projects will be familiarising himself with the theatres and the different constituencies of Joburg, Soweto and Roodepoort. 

“We have to find things that are very specific to those theatres without having them operate as silos. Before we even begin putting on plays, we have to ask important questions, such as who do we make theatre for? What are the stories we are making? Who do we get to make the stories? And what is the pertinence of those stories to the present? 

“Those are things that absolutely drive me as a curator and constantly humble me to help me realise that it’s never about James. It’s about the loyal patrons who come to the theatre. They are the biggest shareholder in this scenario.”

Ngcobo, who becomes emotional at the mention of youth and mentorship, has his own set of mentees to whom he is dear. Rorisang Motuba, an actress, writer and playwright who was cast by Ngcobo in the Market Theatre’s 2014 adaption of The Colored Museum, and was commissioned by him for Diaparo Tsa Mama, staged at the theatre earlier this year, recalls a moment with James that highlighted his character. 

“There have been many gems from James over the years but my most moving memory was when he was telling me about how he once was questioned about if the African, feminist plays that he was choosing to produce were a part of a political statement he was trying to make. James calmly responded that his choice of plays was logical. 

“James simply endears himself to our cultural heritage and he’s unapologetic about it,” she says. 

“He will be great for Joburg Theatres because he is for art and for the artists. He has always encouraged African artistry and respected its contribution to global stages. 

He is worldly and intimate at the same time. A beautiful tenure at a formidable institution awaits!”

“We have time to grow old” is one of James Ngcobo’s all-time favourite quotes from a play. It is from Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot, a work in which he featured when it was staged at Joburg Theatre in 1998. 

The existential play, during which, famously, nothing happens, deals with the conundrum of time. It follows two characters named Vladimir and Estragon as they pass time waiting for an elusive figure named Godot who never appears. The idle pair struggle with their own inability to use time effectively. In context, the quote can be seen as an expression of Vladimir’s frustration with the weary and tedious nature of life.

Ngcobo, the multi-award-winning actor, writer and director who became the first black artistic director of The Market Theatre Foundation nine years ago, meets me at a coffee shop in Johannesburg the day before he starts his new position as the artistic director of Joburg City Theatres. The South African Film and Television Award-winning actor from Netflix’s Queen Sono and SABC 3’s Hard Copy has been tasked with developing and implementing the artistic vision for Joburg City Theatres’s 10 space,s at Joburg Theatre, Roodepoort Theatre, Soweto Theatre and Jabulani Amphitheatre, starting this month.  

He carries the same impassioned energy that he had nine years ago when he was doing media tours for his new position at the Market Theatre. His raspy voice sparks a memory of Mojo Khumalo, the sweet-natured family man he portrayed in the internationally-acclaimed South African sitcom Stokvel. He gesticulates as he speaks, injecting his words with emphasis with a sweeping motion of the hands or a sudden change in posture.

With his unrelenting approach to life, one would be mistaken to assume that Ngcobo receives his favourite quote from Godot with the same grinding tone it conveys. He waxes lyrical about its meaning to him. 

“It’s about what we do as the hands of time move. How can we synchronise our lives with the beat of time? What is our output as time moves on? Growing old is a destination that will definitely happen. But when Vladimir says that ‘we have time to grow old’, to me it speaks to how there is so much to do. 

“It doesn’t give me anxiety; it gives me drive. I come from a people where, if you die, you go back home. What matters to me is what we do as we gallop towards the grave,” he says.

Ngcobo’s inexhaustible approach to life is uplifting, rather than overwhelming. It is also unexpectedly refreshing, considering our country’s current stasis, where rolling blackouts rule the day and night, interrupting routines, hampering productivity, and producing a profound sense of inertia. When the lights cut off in the middle of our interview, I give a mental sigh of vexation. Ngcobo, on the other hand, continues to speak with fervour, either because he does not notice or because he’s unaffected. Similarly, when the country and the world came to an epic standstill at the height of the covid-19 pandemic he kept the same momentum. At that time, the already struggling cultural and creative industry was crumbling under the pandemic’s regulations and a lack of proper funding from the government. Theatres shut down in March of 2020, leaving many artists financially deprived, resulting in public demonstrations against the National Arts Council (NAC) in Johannesburg and other provinces. The permanent closure of theatres like the iconic Fugard Theatre in Cape Town, which was emblematic of the neglect faced by the industry from the government, signified the loss of an establishment that embodied the country’s cultural imagination and ignited fears for artists everywhere.

“One of the most challenging times I’ve had as an artistic director was when everything was closing down during the pandemic,” says Ngcobo, “Everything was so uncertain, but at the same time, I just knew in my heart that we couldn’t just do the easy thing and close the theatre. We had to do something else.” 

In this spirit, Ngcobo became involved in the Market Theatre’s mission to revive theatre during the industry’s bleakest era under a campaign called #TheatreWillRiseAgain. In the campaign, Ngcobo gathered some of the country’s leading actors, dancers, poets and musicians and curated a programme of home-recorded monologues and solo performances for online viewing. These homemade videos soon graduated to a project called Ditshomo Storytime Season, which commissioned esteemed playwrights and choreographers to premier 20-minute productions filmed with high-definition cameras for online streaming. By the end of that year, the Market Theatre became one of the first theatres to open during the pandemic. It reopened with Joseph Komani’s play, Xova, which offers an exploration of single motherhood and the effects of father absenteeism.

“I’ve never had to fight for something like I did during that time. It was risky getting permits to go to meetings. People felt afraid, but personally, I just wanted to keep things going. Eventually, with the regulations of the lockdown in mind, we were continuously churning out productions and audiences were able to see us. People were taking that small window before the arrival of curfew to drive to The Market and watch a play. The thing is, it’s important for us to learn how to continue making beautiful theatre at a time when there isn’t enough money to make. How do we make sure that the lack of money is not stifling the aspirations that lie in our hearts as creatives? Of course, one isn’t naive about the realities we live in but we gotta keep on trying.”

The KwaMashu-born actor never got to study theatre at university, but like a root out of dry ground, he’s managed to absorb every piece of knowledge and inspiration wherever he’s been rooted. His education comes from a variety of figures like Saira Essa, an actor and the director of You Can’t Stop the Revolution, a play which Ngcobo featured in during its opening at  London’s Young Vic Theatre when he was still of school-going age; Actor Nicholas Ellenbogen, who was the artistic director at the Loft Theatre Company in Durban (where Ngcobo states he received a lot of his training from); and writer and activist; Es’kia Mphahlele, who, according to Ngcobo, offered the young writer a masterclass in “writing from a place of experience” when he lunched with him at a Market Theatre restaurant a year before he passed on. “He left an indelible mark in my heart,” says Ngcobo. 

 Add to that list, greats like the late Patrick Shai, a man who played the role of school principal Edwin Thapelo in Yizo Yizo, before Ngcobo took over the role in season two, as well as the late Nomhle Nkonyeni, Owen Sejake, Siyabonga Thwala, Fana Mokoena, and many other acting icons (contemporaries and seniors) who make up the rich tapestry of South African entertainment. Lastly, he singles out the late South African-American film and theatre actor Zakes Mokae who featured in international series like The West Wing, Starsky and Hutch, The X-Files, Oz, A Different World and Knight Rider.

“Zakes is someone that I really admire, a man that I have such great respect for among the actors that have come out of this country. When we talk about giants, he really is a giant that sadly this country has forgotten. We don’t mention Zakes or how he was the first South African actor to break out into Hollywood in the way that he did. I feel honoured to have directed the theatrical version of Athol Fugard’s Master Harold and the Boys, an American drama film that Zakes was in as well as Blood Knot, a play both Fugard and Zakes brought to the stage in 1961.”

Though Ngcobo mentions in a separate interview that “he did not have the privilege to go to university, it is precisely the learning experiences that he’s gathered among industry peers and teachers, along with his gusto, commitment to achieving and sense of innovation and leadership, that have contributed to his current appointment as JCT’s artistic director. He reveals that one of his first projects as artistic director is familiarising himself with the four theatres and being aware of the different constituencies of Joburg, Soweto and Roodepoort. “We have to find things that are very specific to those theatres without having them operate as silos. Before we even begin putting on plays, we have to ask the important questions, such as, who do we make theatre for? What are the stories we are making? Who do we get to make the stories? And what is the pertinence of those stories to the present? Those are things that absolutely drive me as a curator and constantly humble me to help me realise that it’s never about James. It’s about the loyal patronage that comes to the theatre. They are the biggest shareholder in this scenario.”

Ngcobo, who is readily emotive and sentimental at the mention of youth and mentorship, has his own set of mentees who regard him with endearment. Rorisang Motuba, an actress, writer and playwright who was cast by Ngcobo in the Market Theatre’s 2014 adaption of The Colored Museum and was commissioned by him for Diaparo Tsa Mama, staged at the theatre early this year, recalls a moment with James that highlighted his character. 

“There have been many gems from James over the years, but my most moving memory was when he was telling me about how he once was questioned about if the African, feminist plays that he was choosing to produce were a part of a political statement he was trying to make. James calmly responded that his choice of plays were logical. James simply endears himself to our cultural heritage, and he’s unapologetic about it,” she says. “James will be great for Joburg Theatres because he is for art and for the artists. He has always encouraged African artistry and respected its contribution to global stages. He is worldly and intimate at the same time. A beautiful tenure at a formidable institution awaits!”