Pearlie Joubert spoke to Patricia de Lille in a week that the Independent Democrats (ID) did a political about-turn, coming out in support of the Democratic Alliance’s (DA) Cape Town mayor and apologising for voting with the African National Congress (ANC) in March this year.
You’ve said the ID made a mistake supporting the ANC and you’ve thrown your weight behind the DA and Helen Zille in her fight to keep her job and the mayoral system. Why?
The DA and the ID campaigned for the executive mayoral system [exco]. We support this system in line with bringing together all the different groups in Cape Town. We went to the full council and made a call for the exco system but only got an 11% mandate.
We’ve voted more times with the DA than with the ANC. We supported the DA on all the corruption issues. But we voted against the DA when they drew the borders for the sub-councils because they were apartheid borders.
When we heard about Richard Dyantyi’s move to oust the mayor, our response was that we will support Zille as mayor. Simon Grindrod led an ID delegation to tell Zille of our support. She, of course, said that she can’t trust us.
We don’t want the exco system at any cost. Since the inception of the ID, the DA has campaigned against us. The DA wants to say that it’s the ID that put the ANC back into power in the province — we have no interest in doing that.
I quote from the Financial Mail February 24: ‘We are not going to back Nomaindia [Mfeketo] for mayor and that is non-negotiable.’ And then you did —
The ID campaigned for the exco system. Our structures said that we will best serve the people of Cape Town through this system. It is our structures that voted to go with the ANC — it was not Patricia’s decision. Similarly the DA campaigned for the same exco system and they got a mandate of 41% to go for that system. Now, if anybody has lied, it’s the DA. They flip-flopped. Once they came into power, they said they wanted to go to the mayoral committee system. We were interested in having an inclusive and collective executive system.
Yes, we did vote with the ANC and for the exco system, but we voted for them for what we got out of it and that was to have a say in the executive system. We’ll not support the exco system at all costs — not if it brings about a constitutional crisis. This is a potential crisis for the Western Cape.
Did the ANC promise you an executive Cabinet position in exchange for your continual support for the ANC in the City of Cape Town? You’ve been in talks with them.
That is absolute nonsense. Where does this rubbish come from? I think people who know me and my history will know that the ID is not for sale to the ANC or the DA.
So, the president or some senior ANC members didn’t make or try to make a deal with you?
Never. Never. There’s no deal whatsoever. I have never met President Thabo Mbeki. I deal with him through his office. I have never met Mbeki on any level except for in Parliament. Bring me the proof.
There have been rumours of financial mismanagement within the ID. Are your books audited? Did you receive money from the gangster Quentin Marinus or Mr Big?
I can get copies of our books for you right now. No, we did not receive money from him and I don’t know whether I’m being investigated or not. This is malicious. Unlike the DA, who got money from Kebble and Jurgen Harksen, if people have proof that I received money from these people, bring the proof. My books are all audited.
You were implicated in Travelgate. Did you misuse your travel vouchers?
No, I didn’t. I’ve been implicated and it is because the agency I dealt with is one of the agencies that was busted by the Scorpions. There were outstanding amounts in my account — like an upgrade to business class. I can’t say more because I’m a state witness in the Travelgate trial.