Maimane: ‘Smallanyana skeletons unite ANC’

Amid the Democratic Alliance’s plans to mobilise support against President Jacob Zuma following his midnight Cabinet reshuffle, the party’s critics have called on it to handle its own internal troubles with Western Cape Premier Helen Zille before pointing fingers at the ANC. But DA leader Mmusi Maimane says there can be no comparison between Zille and the country’s embattled president.

Friday 7 April sees the start of your programme of action to have President Jacob Zuma removed from office. What are you hoping to achieve with your #MarchForChange?

Many South Africans are deeply concerned about what’s happening now. It’s become quite clear that we’ve got to make sure this motion of no confidence [against Zuma] succeeds. Because South Africans have lost confidence in Jacob Zuma. Rating agencies have lost confidence in Jacob Zuma. People who are hungry in South Africa, who don’t have work, have lost confidence in Jacob Zuma. And I believe that it’s time for all of us as South Africans to unite; it’s time for all of us to act as a collective and take decisions from there.

This is a very unique time for all of us as a nation and we believe that this would be a great opportunity for us to demonstrate that, to call upon South Africans from all races.

Civil society and multiple players say: “We stand together and we believe we have lost confidence in Jacob Zuma and let’s build a South Africa for all.”

Opposition parties have also announced a national day of action against Zuma next week. But how much can you actually achieve without the support of ANC leaders?

This is not to suggest that all of these actions are in vain, we want to broaden this thing. We want to get communities involved, we want to get more people involved. So these actions cumulatively conscientise society to say the ANC has a choice. They can choose South Africa or they can choose Jacob Zuma, but we choose South Africa.

We’ve made the call over a period of time so I really believe now we are not just standing alone as opposition parties, we are also calling on other people to say, “Come with us, come work with us” so that the ANC MPs can feel a comfort in being able to vote with us in this regard.

The DA wants to have another motion of no confidence against Zuma debated in Parliament following several previous attempts that failed. Do you really believe this time will be different?

We have to ask the question: What happens after that? The motion of no confidence is not a destination in and of itself. Let’s give those people who’ve come out publicly to say they oppose [Zuma’s reshuffle] a chance to vote. If Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa says he disagrees with that thing, can he come out and vote, show that he disagrees?

This is a crucial time in our nation. And I can feel the pain of so many who realise that the movement that they once loved, the ANC, is no longer the same. It’s a changed organisation. And therefore as it is, what future is there?

I think we must craft an alternative and show people that, actually, it’s not just about what the ANC does, it’s also about what the opposition does collectively to build an alternative for South Africans.

What do you make of the ANC national working committee’s failure to act against the president, despite some party members raising unhappiness about his major Cabinet reshuffle last week?

I expected that. As soon as those minutes were leaked, the statement [that followed] was a fait accompli to say the ANC is united by small­anyana skeletons. There’s a unity in the ANC around smallanyana skeletons. So when people say: “Hawu, you march to Luthuli House, you unite the ANC,” I say, how can we [unite the ANC]? They are united behind these smallanyana skeletons. For once Minister Bathabile Dlamini showed some great insight to say it’s corruption that binds us, it’s patronage that binds us. It’s no longer the people.

So you’re saying you’re not concerned that an anti-Zuma march will alienate the ANC MPs you’re trying to lobby and cause the party to close ranks?

It doesn’t matter where we march or what we do. The marches are not the things that unite them, it’s corruption that unites them. And I think to say that the opposition can unite the ANC is wrong. Because what should we do? We should leave them to carry on downgrading South Africa, making sure people can’t find work and say, “Let’s sit back because then we will unite them”? They are already united.

The DA has been critical of the ANC, calling on Zuma to either step down or be pushed out. What do you make of criticism that your party is calling on the ANC to do something you are unwilling to do with Helen Zille?

It’s grossly miscalculated. First of all, I laid charges against Jacob Zuma three years ago and the police refused to investigate. Now, when it comes to the issue of Premier Zille, I’ve also put a charge to her. We are investigating. We are proceeding. There is a natural process of law. The ANC doesn’t even do that. I’ve never once defended any [of Zille’s] actions; I’ve simply stood up and said the party is taking its own process. To compare Jacob Zuma to Helen Zille, I think that it’s really quite bizarre when you think about what people are comparing here. Jacob Zuma is destroying South Africa. Destroying it. His sole project is to make sure that the nine million people without work will soon be 10-million. All of us will be paying extra for everything we consume in this country. This is a struggle.

Why did the DA not suspend Zille as Western Cape premier after laying charges against her?

The rules of the DA are quite straightforward. We’ve charged her with bringing the party into disrepute and therefore that must continue. But when you put a charge together the reason you suspend somebody, as per the rules of the party, you suspend that person if they have the potential to interfere with witnesses. Now in this instance we must answer the question: What witnesses are there? So it would be against our own rules to suspend because we believe the investigation must take its course. I think it’s a misreading of natural laws of justice.